[PGT] Blues - 5 Flames - 3

[dino7c]

What goalie is shutting the door so far this season? All I see are crazy amounts of goals everywhere. Even MAF is getting lit up

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What goalie is shutting the door so far this season? All I see are crazy amounts of goals everywhere. Even MAF is getting lit up

Yeah that's kind of his M.O.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

there has to be something Flames can do with Bobrovsky.

2019 1st lotto protected

Frolik & Rittich + 2019 2nd

I don't believe that Columbus is in ANY hurry to move Bobrovsky. They look to be nicely set with Korpisalo to take over as their #1 goalie as early as this season, but they also view themselves as a playoff team with aspirations of making a big run this Spring. They will want the stability that having two goalies like Bobrovsky + Korpisalo provides. I don't think there is a chance that Bobrovsky is moved this year, and certainly not before the Trade Deadline if at all.

[TheIronMaiden]

After getting an assist last night Giordano is only 8 away from taking over Tom Lysiak spot as 9th in Flames assists.

Gio is on the brink of having a very special season in terms of solidifying his spot as one of the all time great Flames.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What goalie is shutting the door so far this season? All I see are crazy amounts of goals everywhere. Even MAF is getting lit up

Gibson has been really good. So has Varlamov and Halak.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think there is any question that there will be a new starting goaltender in Calgary by next season at the latest. But any "responsible GM" has all sorts of things to weigh, factor, and calculate when making significant in-season changes, and he needs to take a long-term view of this.

I would say that now is absolutely too early: First of all, after only four games I doubt the team yet has a good read on their starting goalie who has been playing behind a defense that features three new players—two of which are rookies.

Second, there is nothing on the market in the second week of the season that provides a significant upgrade on the position. Any potential upgrade in goal would come in the form of a trade for a starter, but virtually all of those are either not on the table or grossly overpriced.

Third, the construction of a team is a LONG process from start to finish. Treliving is now in his fifth year as the general manager, and I would argue that this is the last remaining piece that he needs to fill. Fans are impatient, but General Managers cannot afford to be. It is very likely that the best time for Treliving to make a goaltending change is not even in the season. He should not trade for a goalie if there are no good ones available, and he should not panic and pay a premium for a goalie who is not worth the cost.

First, I don't think you're in a position to say what is or isn't on the market right now with that degree of certainty.

Second, Treliving doesn't just have 4 games worth of Smith on which to evaluate his play. There's also the end of last season. Say what you want about Sigalet's track record, but he should be able to advise on whether what we're seeing in just Smith behand a new system, or something off with his game going back to his struggles last year.

Third, building a team is a long process, but it's not infinite. Treliving burned last season waiting on Gulutzan until the offseason, despite making what he thought would be meaningful upgrades to the defense and goaltending. This offseason he made significant changes to both forwards and defense, and behind the bench. I doubt he's going to be content risking burning another season with substandard goaltending.

Fourth, it's BS of you to build into my argument that Treliving should panic. Obviously he shouldn't. But he should be identifying those goalies the team wants to target, and should be working the phones regularly to see if he can find a deal sooner rather than later. Just throwing up his hands and saying "We'll revisit it next offseason" would be as irresponsible as making a panic trade.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Gibson has been really good. So has Varlamov and Halak.

So a few guys...most teams are allowing more goals than usual was the point.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Gibson has been really good. So has Varlamov and Halak.

Jack Campbell had led LA to a couple of wins despite being heavily outshot.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think that playing 2 rookie Dmen together on the road will have its challenges. They were on for 3 goals. All part of learning to be a better player. There will be growing pains.

I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to pair each of them with a vet and stagger the inexperience in two D pairs. Pros and cons I guess

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mike F

First, I don't think you're in a position to say what is or isn't on the market right now with that degree of certainty.

Second, Treliving doesn't just have 4 games worth of Smith on which to evaluate his play. There's also the end of last season. Say what you want about Sigalet's track record, but he should be able to advise on whether what we're seeing in just Smith behand a new system, or something off with his game going back to his struggles last year.

Third, building a team is a long process, but it's not infinite. Treliving burned last season waiting on Gulutzan until the offseason, despite making what he thought would be meaningful upgrades to the defense and goaltending. This offseason he made significant changes to both forwards and defense, and behind the bench. I doubt he's going to be content risking burning another season with substandard goaltending.

Fourth, it's BS of you to build into my argument that Treliving should panic. Obviously he shouldn't. But he should be identifying those goalies the team wants to target, and should be working the phones regularly to see if he can find a deal sooner rather than later. Just throwing up his hands and saying "We'll revisit it next offseason" would be as irresponsible as making a panic trade.

Good god. Did I hit a nerve?

In terms of the market you are correct in pointing out that neither one of us knows what is available, but do you honestly think that there are teams looking to move quality goalies after 5% of the regular season has been played? It seems like a pretty reasonable suggestion that the market is just not there right now.

And as much as you accuse me of making assertions about what the GM is or is not thinking and doing, you are doing exactly the same thing in your sentence about Sigalet. I would imagine that he, the coaches, and management have a very good handle on how Smith entered the season, and likely where he is at now and whether a change is needed.

As for the process, did I ever say that this was an issue that should be allowed to continue into perpetuity? No. I have suggested that the GM likely has more time to make this work than most fans would provide for him to do so. I personally think that Treliving is a good GM who should have more time to fix the problem. No doubt, he will not be content in burning another season on substandard goaltending, but he cannot simply will it to a solution. The primary point I was making in my above post was that it is a possible outcome for Treliving to do what he can without jeopardizing the team and still finish the year without trading for a new goalie. That could very well happen in spite of his best efforts and correct decisions.

If you read in my response an implication that you were suggesting the GM make a panic move, then that's on you. You asked the question: "how long does a responsible GM roll those dice?," and I answered: "now is too soon, and if no significant upgrade is available in season than the responsible thing to do is to make changes in the summer."

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Jack Campbell had led LA to a couple of wins despite being heavily outshot.

I'm genuinely curious how many shots on goalies who have "great starts" are directly into their pads in a butterfly, vs goalies who have faced shots 20" high or top corner.

[Strange Brew]

Let’s not pretend that in Treliving’s 4+ years as GM he hasn’t tried to address the most important position on the team. To me it’s not about him biding his time, but more about getting it right. He has signed or traded for 6 NHL goalies in a little over 4 years.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Let’s not pretend that in Treliving’s 4+ years as GM he hasn’t tried to address the most important position on the team. To me it’s not about him biding his time, but more about getting it right. He has signed or traded for 6 NHL goalies in a little over 4 years.

That is appalling.

Kyrou with a nice assist last night.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think there is any question that there will be a new starting goaltender in Calgary by next season at the latest. But any "responsible GM" has all sorts of things to weigh, factor, and calculate when making significant in-season changes, and he needs to take a long-term view of this.

I would say that now is absolutely too early: First of all, after only four games I doubt the team yet has a good read on their starting goalie who has been playing behind a defense that features three new players—two of which are rookies.

Second, there is nothing on the market in the second week of the season that provides a significant upgrade on the position. Any potential upgrade in goal would come in the form of a trade for a starter, but virtually all of those are either not on the table or grossly overpriced.

Third, the construction of a team is a LONG process from start to finish. Treliving is now in his fifth year as the general manager, and I would argue that this is the last remaining piece that he needs to fill. Fans are impatient, but General Managers cannot afford to be. It is very likely that the best time for Treliving to make a goaltending change is not even in the season. He should not trade for a goalie if there are no good ones available, and he should not panic and pay a premium for a goalie who is not worth the cost.

Fair points, but the bolded Treliving is most likely fired if the Flames miss the post season this year due to crappy goaltending. I still think if the Flames are struggling with goaltending in mid November he goes out and finds a temporary season and job saving solution.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Let’s not pretend that in Treliving’s 4+ years as GM he hasn’t tried to address the most important position on the team. To me it’s not about him biding his time, but more about getting it right. He has signed or traded for 6 NHL goalies in a little over 4 years.

We know he was also in on trying to trade for Martin Jones, Cam Talbot, Frederik Andersen, MA Fleury, Ben Bishop, and I'm sure others I'm forgetting.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Let’s not pretend that in Treliving’s 4+ years as GM he hasn’t tried to address the most important position on the team. To me it’s not about him biding his time, but more about getting it right. He has signed or traded for 6 NHL goalies in a little over 4 years.

Yes, and during that time, the Flames have missed out on Grubauer, Raanta, Andersen, Fleury, Bishop, Jones, Lehner, Condon, Demko, Dubnyk, Howard, Hutton, etc. All of these guys have been moved while Treliving was GM.

Rankly, the Flames are unlucky to be where they are in terms of goaltending.
Basically every alternative we didn't take has worked out for another team.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think there is any question that there will be a new starting goaltender in Calgary by next season at the latest. But any "responsible GM" has all sorts of things to weigh, factor, and calculate when making significant in-season changes, and he needs to take a long-term view of this.

I would say that now is absolutely too early: First of all, after only four games I doubt the team yet has a good read on their starting goalie who has been playing behind a defense that features three new players—two of which are rookies.

Second, there is nothing on the market in the second week of the season that provides a significant upgrade on the position. Any potential upgrade in goal would come in the form of a trade for a starter, but virtually all of those are either not on the table or grossly overpriced.

Third, the construction of a team is a LONG process from start to finish. Treliving is now in his fifth year as the general manager, and I would argue that this is the last remaining piece that he needs to fill. Fans are impatient, but General Managers cannot afford to be. It is very likely that the best time for Treliving to make a goaltending change is not even in the season. He should not trade for a goalie if there are no good ones available, and he should not panic and pay a premium for a goalie who is not worth the cost.

That's what people said about GG too, he is figuring out his lines, it will come around, give hime time, blah, blah, blah.

A bad coach is a bad coach and a bad goalie is a bad goalie.

In the mean time, the Flames are spinning their wheels and wasting talent up front.

[Bunk]

My weird hunch is that Rittich will be starter by end of the year. He will do well and we'll be debating in the off-season whether we can trust him to be the guy based on a really good say 25 game stretch and playoff, or whether we still need someone else as a 1a/1b scenario.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Bunk

My weird hunch is that Rittich will be starter by end of the year. He will do well and we'll be debating in the off-season whether we can trust him to be the guy based on a really good say 25 game stretch and playoff, or whether we still need someone else as a 1a/1b scenario.

One can only hope and pray.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

We know he was also in on trying to trade for Martin Jones, Cam Talbot, Frederik Andersen, MA Fleury, Ben Bishop, and I'm sure others I'm forgetting.

"Big Game Hunting"