[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Cole436

As someone not well versed in city councillors, why is this not surprising?

Not that I think those 4 are the brightest lights, but I still am not sure why they would vote against. So they seem supportive of CSES? It isn't necessarily a crazy position. I guess we will see what they actually discussed...

[Table 5]

I guess those 4 think that transparency is bad I guess?

[s_procee]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I watched the stream online of the vote taking place

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

So the city was basically willing to put up the equivalent of $50m-75m via a loan that got repaid. The flames were looking for C$150-200m straight.

So the two sides are about $100-125m apart...

I don't think its just the money difference.

City wants to recoup, flames dont.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I guess those 4 think that transparency is bad I guess?

I think at least one of them is voting against on Council simply to play devils advocate because of dislike for Nenshi.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I don't think its just the money difference.

City wants to recoup, flames dont.

What he is suggesting is that recouping costs the city the equivalent of 50-75M, so that is their willingness to pay. If they wanted in recouped over 100 years the Flames might agree.

[Wormius]

Some of it is ironic, because of their previous stances on the use of tax payer money.

And on that note, I think any vote should have at least a short sentence of why you're voting one way or another. It's frustrating to see these votes that just leave you scratching your head.

[Locke]

I dont even like watching my own children fight amongst themselves. This is intolerable. I guess they can assuage themselves by counting their money but that doesnt help me any.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The 4 nay votes would be?

This is exciting!!!


We can finally see the offer IAMNOTKENKING has been talking about

[sureLoss]

Lucas Meyer @meyer_lucas
Nenshi calls City offer "eminently reasonable" and there's another offer residents will see as "eminently unreasonable" #Flames #yyc

Shawn Logan @ShawnLogan403
Mayor @nenshi expressed puzzlement over Flames ditching arena quest. Says he'll release deets of both sides' proposals in days ahead #yyccc

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Lucas Meyer @meyer_lucas
Nenshi calls City offer "eminently reasonable" and there's another offer residents will see as "eminently unreasonable" #Flames #yyc

Shawn Logan @ShawnLogan403
Mayor @nenshi expressed puzzlement over Flames ditching arena quest. Says he'll release deets of both sides' proposals in days ahead #yyccc

Oh yeah...this is not going to go well.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

LOL, the speed at which city council suggested, and agreed to, releasing the negotiation details tells me CSEC isn't going to look all that great afterwards

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Ice_Weasel

Passive aggressive threat / negotiating tactic. It is, after all, a negotiation. Reality is the city played their cards very poorly - releasing a glossy video showing their vision of a redeveloped Victoria Park with a new arena as the anchor. Oh, and guess what, the flames are essentially going to pay for it 100%. Victoria park is a collection of vacant lots and industrial land....it needs a big anchor tenant for the cities vision to be realized (and further justify the $6B c-train expansion). They need each other...so this posturing is ridiculous. But BOTH sides are to blame for that.

If the city has other co-investment options, I would be happy to debate them as required. In fact, it would be great if there was a new thread started about how much the City should be willing to subsidize Amazon to locate here.

The city shouldn't be funding anything privately unless there is actual value displayed but at least Amazon would provide possibly hundreds of high paying jobs to citizens. The Flames botched this from Day 1 with CalgaryNEXT and this is why it's taken so long to even get to this point.

There isn't going to be any negotiation unless the Flames realize Calgarians aren't as dumb as some of these other cities and adjust accordingly. A 30 year repayment scheme on 200M is basically a drop in the bucket when you consider the revenue the franchise generates and is probable open for some wiggle room.

No one is even talking about naming rights that would likely pay most of that 200M off with the click of a pen.

[calgaryblood]

I think we will see just how unreasonable the Flames have been when info is released.

[Flash Walken]

Boy, after so much talk, I am excited to see what was out down on paper from the flames side.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

My job is more important to me than sports - but I don't expect the city to pitch in to help my company build a new building.

Do your competitors get government subsidies?

If your competitors do get public funds, it would probably be impossible for your owners to compete in the marketplace, and it would be smart for them to lobby they city/province/feds for funds. If they don't get the funds, it's an uneven playing field and your company goes bankrupt.

The Flames' competitors are subsidized by the public. This is not new, and this is a tradition in North American sports. If the Flames don't get something from the city, eventually they will become unprofitable. That's the downside of essentially running a business where all 31 competitors are colluding to inflate prices. The Flames (or any pro sports club that comes to Calgary) will need our money, that's the nasty part of pro sports.

I hate it, but it's a losing battle. Calgary will have to give something; we just need our elected officials to be prudent about it. Nenshi's hardball, non-chalant and arrogant tone turns people off, myself included.

KK and the Flames would do well to be a little more graceful publicly while their hand is out looking for public money. Making public statements like they did and bringing in Bettman to shield them from the community they live and work in was shameful and a disgrace.

The ultimate question is do you like hockey enough to allow this group of billionaires to take our money, then raise ticket prices? I think I do. I'd be pretty perturbed if Calgary didn't have an NHL club.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Ok...

So based on the rumors that the flames have asked for similar terms to Calgary next, I would speculate the flames have presumably offered: 1/3 city via CRL, 1/3 ticket tax, and 1/3 owners. And the city provides infrastructure and land


And as per the quote below, the city has offered: 1/3 ticket tax, 2/3 owners and city provides some infrastructure and land.



Jeezus...so they're basically apart by $150m. Just split the difference and get it done. I feel bad for the flames...

According to the Francis article the Flames ownership group is willing to put up $200 million.

The article does not indicate one way or the other but I suspect this would include any ticket tax..

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[djsFlames]

Going to guess CSEC's proposal was basically a win-lose proposal benefitting only CSEC and fans of their teams, while the City's was a fair proposal whereby the city could recoup their portion over a long period of time which also seems fair.

KK and the old boys kind of digging their own PR grave with their move yesterday. Gonna look like greedy ####s in the coming hours.

Savvy response by Nenshi. But it's not going to go over well on the other side.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I think we will see just how unreasonable the Flames have been when info is released.

We'll see.

I'm sure we'll see the Flames are after a deal very similar to what the Oilers and Edmonton got to in the end, and I'm not going to think that's "unreasonable" because it's just about the best comparable there could be.

[killer_carlson]

I am prepared to read both sides' proposals and then determine who I find to be more palatable.

I am trying hard not to form my opinions over 'the twitter'