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Old 03-07-2021, 01:16 AM   #8681
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Tre definitely still has some work to do. Tonight’s loss just reinforces the fact that we don’t have a game breaker on the roster. Johnny is fantastic, I love him but he’s not the guy that will put a team on his back and will them to victory. I thought Tkachuk would become that guy but he just hasn’t developed into that kind of player. Maybe Sutter can get him out of whatever funk he’s in but I’d still love to see Tre swing for the fences with Eichel.

Monahan + Tkachuk + 1st round pick + any prospect not named Zary or Pelletier.

Johnny needs to play with a gamebreaker...poor guy has to do it all himself
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Old 03-07-2021, 01:25 AM   #8682
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Can somebody tell me when Eichel put a team on his back and willed them to victory?

Kind of hard to do when you’ve played your entire career with one of the two worst franchises in the NHL the last decade or so. Put him on a decent team with even a little bit of help and I bet he’d look like Mackinnon at the very least.
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Old 03-07-2021, 01:37 AM   #8683
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Can somebody tell me when Eichel put a team on his back and willed them to victory?
How can we know when he’s been on a tire fire his whole career?
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Old 03-07-2021, 02:07 AM   #8684
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Tre definitely still has some work to do. Tonight’s loss just reinforces the fact that we don’t have a game breaker on the roster. Johnny is fantastic, I love him but he’s not the guy that will put a team on his back and will them to victory. I thought Tkachuk would become that guy but he just hasn’t developed into that kind of player. Maybe Sutter can get him out of whatever funk he’s in but I’d still love to see Tre swing for the fences with Eichel.

Monahan + Tkachuk + 1st round pick + any prospect not named Zary or Pelletier.

To be fair, Johnny has been that guy for most of his career here. His hot streaks generally coincide with this team's winning streaks and the percentage of his team's total goals that he's involved in would suggest that he was indeed a game breaker and one of the very best. I think he's had a tougher go at it recently because this team still has yet to find the right mix for that line. Monahan and Gaudreau are just simply not a strong enough pair to carry dead weight on their line, they need the right player, the right chemistry to be dynamic.

If only Monahan was a better play driver like a Draisaitl or a Scheifele, then I think this line would flourish. His insistence to defer to Gaudreau to make plays instead makes this line incredibly predictable and easier to defend. Contrary to popular belief, I actually think Gaudreau would be more effective if he played with the puck less. As in, if Gaudreau was the one receiving the drop passes, the with more time/space, then I think he could make more dynamic plays, harder cuts, dekes, spins and etc. His quick first step is one of his biggest weapons and catching people flat footed or off guard would make him infinitely more dangerous.
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Old 03-07-2021, 02:09 AM   #8685
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Johnny needs to play with a gamebreaker...poor guy has to do it all himself
If anyone remembers Johnny Gaudreau with Nathan Mackinnon at the World Cup, it was a match made in heaven. I think they were the best duo on the team and that included McDavid, Matthews and etc.
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Old 03-07-2021, 02:19 AM   #8686
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If anyone remembers Johnny Gaudreau with Nathan Mackinnon at the World Cup, it was a match made in heaven. I think they were the best duo on the team and that included McDavid, Matthews and etc.
For an experiment drop Monahan as Gaudreau's center and think of a player that's a natural center with speed.

Spoiler!
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Old 03-07-2021, 06:59 AM   #8687
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How can we know when he’s been on a tire fire his whole career?
Is there a connection between his team being a tire fire his whole career and him not being this mythical game breaker people claim him to be? Eichel is not McHobo. He's not even remotely close in any way. He's a very good player, but every team has very good players. Jack Eichel is not a game breaker. If he was the Sabres would be way better than they are. I would consider a trade for him, but you have to be very careful with the expectations you have of this player and recognize you are getting a $10M version of Monahan/Lindholm level player. This guy is not going to arrive and turn this team around or provide an immediate offensive threat. So you have to recognize that the cost better be worth the squeeze. If you can do a trade where Tkachuk and Eichel are the principles involved, I could see something work, but the budget is going to be messy.
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Old 03-07-2021, 07:27 AM   #8688
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
Johnny needs to play with a gamebreaker...poor guy has to do it all himself
Or Gaudreau can be the one to make others around him better? He is supposed to be a star player in this league after all. One trick pony at this point though.

His giveaways are killing that line most nights. And it is EVERY night...some worse than others for sure, but way way to many overall.

He is not playing any better than his line mates, particularly away from the puck. He is playing scared....but there is a guy on the way that should be able to help him with that.
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Old 03-07-2021, 07:38 AM   #8689
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Is there a connection between his team being a tire fire his whole career and him not being this mythical game breaker people claim him to be? Eichel is not McHobo. He's not even remotely close in any way. He's a very good player, but every team has very good players. Jack Eichel is not a game breaker. If he was the Sabres would be way better than they are. I would consider a trade for him, but you have to be very careful with the expectations you have of this player and recognize you are getting a $10M version of Monahan/Lindholm level player. This guy is not going to arrive and turn this team around or provide an immediate offensive threat. So you have to recognize that the cost better be worth the squeeze. If you can do a trade where Tkachuk and Eichel are the principles involved, I could see something work, but the budget is going to be messy.
He is essentially a point per game player, on a historically bad franchise. Off the top of my head I think his wingers have been reinhart, okposo, skinner, kane. Yikes.

Last year he was a top 5 player in the league. If you combine counting stats 78 points in 68 games and was +5, with possession stats (dominated corsi, fenwick his whole career) and his zone entries last year were at the very top, as well as a one man break out.

I know you are anti advanced stats... but watch him play he passes the eye test too.

I would argue the biggest concern is maybe faceoffs.
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Old 03-07-2021, 08:50 AM   #8690
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
Johnny needs to play with a gamebreaker...poor guy has to do it all himself
I agree with this, I think its just unfortunate that our best RW is also our most complete C. Noticed Levio a few too many times for not the right reasons last night. I dont like him getting more minutes then Dube, especially after just coming off a hat trick.. Would even prefer to see Ryan on the odd double shift in that slot.

Last edited by Braden; 03-07-2021 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Only 30 seconds more, regardless should be tilted much more the other way
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Old 03-07-2021, 08:55 AM   #8691
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
For an experiment drop Monahan as Gaudreau's center and think of a player that's a natural center with speed.

Spoiler!
Dube doesn't have the same level hockey IQ.
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:07 AM   #8692
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He is essentially a point per game player, on a historically bad franchise. Off the top of my head I think his wingers have been reinhart, okposo, skinner, kane. Yikes.

Last year he was a top 5 player in the league. If you combine counting stats 78 points in 68 games and was +5, with possession stats (dominated corsi, fenwick his whole career) and his zone entries last year were at the very top, as well as a one man break out.

I know you are anti advanced stats... but watch him play he passes the eye test too.

I would argue the biggest concern is maybe faceoffs.
And I would argue that Eichel is not the sum of his parts. Those wingers you listed have all been quality players elsewhere (with the exception of Reinhart) but haven't done much with Eichel. Is that on them, or also on Eichel? Every time I watch him I don't come away impressed, especially when he's being paid $10M a season. He should be elevating the talent around him for that kind of coin, and he does not elevate the talent that plays with him. Yes, he's skilled with the puck, but he is not good at making his line or team better. And yes, he is brutal in the faceoff dot. I would not be inclined to believe he lives up to the hype and become McEichel here, which is what the fans really hope for. They want someone flashy like McHobo and don't give a #### about the outcome.

TBH, this whole scenario reminds me of the days when the Oilers had Gretzky and the Flames had a rag-tag bunch of no bodies. The fans had such a hard on for finding a center that was as flashy and productive as Gretzky, not recognizing that we had the better "team." I like the talent on the roster right now and think they just need to be managed right. I don't think they need a McHobo as the cost of that player and the escalation of contracts of anyone who plays with him pretty well makes the rest of the team terrible. If this team is focused we know it can be one of the top teams in the NHL. It is unfortunate we've wasted years of good contracts while going with inexperienced or bargain bin coaches.
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:08 AM   #8693
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
For an experiment drop Monahan as Gaudreau's center and think of a player that's a natural center with speed.

Spoiler!
I think they should try him with lindholm
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:10 AM   #8694
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Or Gaudreau can be the one to make others around him better? He is supposed to be a star player in this league after all. One trick pony at this point though.

His giveaways are killing that line most nights. And it is EVERY night...some worse than others for sure, but way way to many overall.

He is not playing any better than his line mates, particularly away from the puck. He is playing scared....but there is a guy on the way that should be able to help him with that.
Any appetite to trying Ritchie with gaudreau? Kind of like a semenko role.
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:11 AM   #8695
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I agree with trying Lindholm with Johnny ....said that all season. I still don’t know who will be on the other wing though. I think Bennett may thrive under Sutter.
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:16 AM   #8696
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I agree with trying Lindholm with Johnny ....said that all season. I still don’t know who will be on the other wing though. I think Bennett may thrive under Sutter.
Bennet, ritchie, lucic. Someone with a physical presence
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:18 AM   #8697
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I think they should try him with lindholm
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Any appetite to trying Ritchie with gaudreau? Kind of like a semenko role.
Here's a real novel idea. How about trying Lindholm with Gaudreau AND Monahan? What a crazy idea! You know, it might just work? If there was only a body of work that showed they could play together and produce?



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I agree with trying Lindholm with Johnny ....said that all season. I still don’t know who will be on the other wing though. I think Bennett may thrive under Sutter.
I think Sutter doesn't change a damn thing with Bennett. Sutter arriving on the scene is not going to change Bennett's IQ, or his ability to play at speed, or use his linemates with any level of efficacy, or shoot a puck with any authority. Players are a sum of their parts and no coach is going to change that. The sum of Sam Bennett's parts are so flawed that he is never going to be a player of consequence. The secret to making Bennett useful is to pair him with players that rely on a similar style and mentality. Lucic is a perfect fit. Dube is a great complimentary player there. Skilled enough to drive a north-south line, but also smart enough to play the defensively responsible role on the line. Go with this line and shelter the crap out of it and you likely make the most of Sam Bennett. Playing him higher up the lineup with skill players is just adding an anchor to the guys you want to produce.

Last edited by Lanny_McDonald; 03-07-2021 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:20 AM   #8698
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Well I think we were all expecting a 30g 30-50a type player at 4th overall so if that's what he turns him into then yes he's a miracle worker.
Bennett doesn't have to be that player, he just to be the player Sutter wants him to be, or the team needs him to be. Sutter loves underdogs and this is chance for him to show he understands players as well as anyone. I think Bennett's draft year expectations are unrealistic, so bringing them up to take a shot at Bennett is just looking for another reason to complain.
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Old 03-07-2021, 10:01 AM   #8699
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Kind of hard to do when you’ve played your entire career with one of the two worst franchises in the NHL the last decade or so. Put him on a decent team with even a little bit of help and I bet he’d look like Mackinnon at the very least.

Mackinnon at the very least?? So at the very least, he’d be one of, if not the best players in the game today. At the very least.
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Old 03-07-2021, 10:51 AM   #8700
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BUF has never had a goalie and the D is just a mess. Some decent d-men, but everyone is playing at least 1 slot above ideal.
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