Question

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I disagree. You might not be gleefully unaware of our system, but you're definitely ignoring it. If tipping wasn't normal staff would be paid more and prices on the menu would be higher. So you'd be paying more one way or another. Sliding by with your attitude gives you a deal no one else gets. It's not really fair. If you have a problem with the service or product that's one thing. But to just wander into a restaurant and not tip as a rule is totally cheap and not fair to anyone.

Now prices are higher and staff are being paid more, so it would follow that tips go down.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I find it interesting that so many people are adjusting their tips with the minimum wage, simply because I highly doubt people were previously asking their servers whether or not they were being paid minimum wage and then tipping accordingly. I can understand lowering your tip based on affordability relative to the cost of the service, but there is no magical formula to determine what a person should be tipped relative to their wage. It’s (almost)always optional, when you go on vacation somewhere out of province how many people tip according to the local minimum wage?

Previously the minimum wage was lower for servers. Now the minimum wage is going up and the discrepancy is gone. So it shouldn't be surprising.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I disagree. You might not be gleefully unaware of our system, but you're definitely ignoring it. If tipping wasn't normal staff would be paid more and prices on the menu would be higher. So you'd be paying more one way or another. Sliding by with your attitude gives you a deal no one else gets. It's not really fair. If you have a problem with the service or product that's one thing. But to just wander into a restaurant and not tip as a rule is totally cheap and not fair to anyone.

There's a difference between being cheap, and 'stealing from your server.'

It's the accusation that I'd be stealing if I don't tip enough, because their employer is taking their money, that I take offense to.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Now prices are higher and staff are being paid more, so it would follow that tips go down.

Completely agree. I'm sort of waiting to see if the price on the menu goes up at my favorite spots and then I'd feel ok about adjusting the tip accordingly. But most places haven't raised prices yet. I think that's probably the best way to adjust your tipping habits rather than a formula of some kind that tries to predict what a server would usually make. If you notice a price increase, scale it back on the tip.

It does suck for servers though. A lot are going to be going from a hundred a night to an extra $30 bucks on their pay check. Total goof on the ndp for not having a different scale for tip earners.

[Canehdianman]

I was starting to feel guilty about my plan to start tipping a lot less, so I ran some numbers.

In 2016, servers made $10.70 an hour. Right now, they make $13.60/hour (an increase of 27% in just over a year). In October, that is going to be $15/hour (a 40% increase from 2016).

Since 2014, my salary has gone down at the rate of inflation, as I've been in a salary freeze.

Given this, I've reconsidered my plan.

I will be tipping 5% until October, at which point I will only be tipping for exceptional service.

It sucks that servers have to tip out, but at least you have 40% more income to offset that tip-out.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Completely agree. I'm sort of waiting to see if the price on the menu goes up at my favorite spots and then I'd feel ok about adjusting the tip accordingly. But most places haven't raised prices yet. I think that's probably the best way to adjust your tipping habits rather than a formula of some kind that tries to predict what a server would usually make. If you notice a price increase, scale it back on the tip.

It does suck for servers though. A lot are going to be going from a hundred a night to an extra $30 bucks on their pay check. Total goof on the ndp for not having a different scale for tip earners.

ya, most servers I know hate the new wages. This has increased their taxable income a lot and lowered their non-taxable income. That has always been a huge bonus for servers. No real mystery why a government would want that part changed tho.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Swarly

ya, most servers I know hate the new wages. This has increased their taxable income a lot and lowered their non-taxable income. That has always been a huge bonus for servers. No real mystery why a government would want that part changed tho.

Yeah I actually hate it when servers don't declare tips. I think it's a bit harder now that most restaurant tips are on visa and paid at as part of the pay check. But I don't have sympathy for anyone having to pay taxes on their income. I especially hate cash job contractors.

In general though I do think this is a way to increase taxable revenue for the government. I've seen scenarios where people get a four hundred a check increase in pay but only net around a hundred and fifty.

[V]

Originally Posted by GGG

So if you are going against a cultural norm (tipping 15-18%) the obligation is on you to understamd why that norm exists and understand the consequences of violating said norm.

I think you're using the word obligation wrong.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Previously the minimum wage was lower for servers. Now the minimum wage is going up and the discrepancy is gone. So it shouldn't be surprising.

Not all servers used to make the minimum wage though. They could have landed anywhere between $10.20-$15 per hour yet now that people know they are making $15/hour they are adjusting their tips.

Example: If a server was making $12/hour in 2015 and you were tipping say 15-20% would it really make sense to start lowering your tips when the minimum wage went to $12.20?

People who are adjusting their tips strictly as a result of knowing the new minimum wage are being a little bit ignorant to the fact that they didn’t know what their server was making before. That being the case how can they know how much they need to adjust to keep their server from a loss? (If that is their intention)

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Swarly

ya, most servers I know hate the new wages. This has increased their taxable income a lot and lowered their non-taxable income. That has always been a huge bonus for servers. No real mystery why a government would want that part changed tho.

Tips have always been taxable, it's just that servers who don't report it are dishonest and steal from government(us). So, uh boo-hoo?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Swarly

ya, most servers I know hate the new wages. This has increased their taxable income a lot and lowered their non-taxable income. That has always been a huge bonus for servers. No real mystery why a government would want that part changed tho.

If you try to maximize your non-taxable income you're stealing services and infrastructure.

Or something.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Yeah I actually hate it when servers don't declare tips. I think it's a bit harder now that most restaurant tips are on visa and paid at as part of the pay check. But I don't have sympathy for anyone having to pay taxes on their income. I especially hate cash job contractors.

In general though I do think this is a way to increase taxable revenue for the government. I've seen scenarios where people get a four hundred a check increase in pay but only net around a hundred and fifty.

Years ago, I had friends in the restaurant industry. They would think they were being honest by declaring tips at 10% of their wages, like that was somehow a good estimate. Most would make 200-300% of their wages in tips or more. They would all very stubbornly claim they were being honest if challenged on it.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Not all servers used to make the minimum wage though. They could have landed anywhere between $10.20-$15 per hour yet now that people know they are making $15/hour they are adjusting their tips.

Example: If a server was making $12/hour in 2015 and you were tipping say 15-20% would it really make sense to start lowering your tips when the minimum wage went to $12.20?

People who are adjusting their tips strictly as a result of knowing the new minimum wage are being a little bit ignorant to the fact that they didn’t know what their server was making before. That being the case how can they know how much they need to adjust to keep their server from a loss? (If that is their intention)

I've known many servers but have never heard of any making more than minimum wage. Min wage is just accepted as even at better/fancier restaurants you will just make up for it with higher tips. Not sure where this place is that was paying servers more than min, doubt its in Calgary, but either way I'd bet they are paying min wage now.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Tips have always been taxable, it's just that servers who don't report it are dishonest and steal from government(us). So, uh boo-hoo?

Oh ya, I don't feel bad for em. It was just always an easy perk for anyone with flexible morals, which seems to be most servers.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Swarly

I've known many servers but have never heard of any making more than minimum wage. Min wage is just accepted as even at better/fancier restaurants you will just make up for it with higher tips. Not sure where this place is that was paying servers more than min, doubt its in Calgary, but either way I'd bet they are paying min wage now.

When the minimum wage increase was initially announced less than 2% of Albertans were working for minimum wage. Since I’m assuming(could be wrong though) servers make up more than 2% of the workforce I don’t think it’s inaccurate to suggest that they were not all being paid minimum wage.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3086777

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

Thanks, do you know how it was distributed?

I don't quite remember the percentages, but it was split between the bussing staff, kitchen, and hostesses.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Tips have always been taxable, it's just that servers who don't report it are dishonest and steal from government(us). So, uh boo-hoo?

This is sort of the funny part, not all servers are upstanding, income-declaring Citizens, oh sure, most would declare 'some' of their tips, or maybe they just keep bad records, who knows? Bartenders and Waitresses are not renowned for their fastidious bookkeeping.

But getting tip income that mysteriously slips through the cracks occasionally but more taxed and declared payroll income is likely to leave them in a worse financial position overall.

But what can you do right? The Government has to help low income earners earn more income!

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

When the minimum wage increase was initially announced less than 2% of Albertans were working for minimum wage. Since I’m assuming(could be wrong though) servers make up more than 2% of the workforce I don’t think it’s inaccurate to suggest that they were not all being paid minimum wage.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3086777

If they are pulling those numbers from a report like this one. Then any server who claims any portion of their tips come tax time, which would be most as the best way to get audited is claiming you made zero tips in a year working in the service industry, is no longer part of the min wage group. That leaves your 2% group being only people who don't work in the service industry or those few servers that actually claim zero in tips.

Average hourly earnings
Average hourly earnings before taxes and other
deductions, and include tips, commissions and
bonuses. Because tips, commissions and bonuses
are included, the analysis may not include all
minimum wage earners. This variable is not
exclusive to wage earners and includes employees
who are salaried, work on commission and other
pay schemes. Because it is just based on hourly
earnings and not hourly wage the analysis may
include persons who are not minimum wage
earners.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is sort of the funny part, not all servers are upstanding, income-declaring Citizens, oh sure, most would declare 'some' of their tips, or maybe they just keep bad records, who knows? Bartenders and Waitresses are not renowned for their fastidious bookkeeping.

But getting tip income that mysteriously slips through the cracks occasionally but more taxed and declared payroll income is likely to leave them in a worse financial position overall.

But what can you do right? The Government has to help low income earners earn more income!

Would they be in a better spot if they were ever audited by the CRA and found to have been hiding their tip income? It’d be interesting to figure out where the tipping point(no pun intended) would be for a server who is actually paying taxes on their tips as income on top of the wage to be losing money from the increase. Although I guess it would vary quite a bit for each individual based on their tips.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Swarly

I've known many servers but have never heard of any making more than minimum wage. Min wage is just accepted as even at better/fancier restaurants you will just make up for it with higher tips. Not sure where this place is that was paying servers more than min, doubt its in Calgary, but either way I'd bet they are paying min wage now.

As a former server and bartender, I always made minimum wage while working the floor. During my last shift it was $5.90 per hour. Whenever I was behind the bar I made the same amount as I did on the floor, except at Moxie's Chinook. Here I made $7.00 per hour. The theory was that bartenders have more opportunities to steal, so the company is going to pay them a higher wage in order to not steal.

I'm not sure you should be hiring people to tend your bar if you think they are going to steal. I completely understand that some do, but you can also steal on the floor if you want to. Also, in an 8 hour shift, I made an extra $8.80. If I was a person that was tempted to steal, I'm not sure that extra $8.80 would stop me from pocketing the money from a beer or two by not ringing it into the POS. They could be paying you more to steal. I thought it was highly unnecessary to pay me more than the servers, but if they wanted to give me more money, I was going to accept it. I made much more as a bartender than I did as a server, with much less work. All of my serving experience was in casual restaurants.

I've discussed it here in the past, but the servers who think declaring 10% of your wages is good for tips is either hilarious, or sad that they don't understand math. If, back in my day, you made $5.90 an hour and worked an 8 hour shift, you'd make $47.20 in wages. If you made $4.72 in tips in 8 hours, you are a terrible server and/or work at a restaurant that is about to go out of business. Each night I aimed to make $100 in tips. If I did that consistently I'd have enough for rent, car payments, tuition, food, etc. Some night were more, and some nights were less, obviously. I never walked out with less money than I started with, but I have had night where I walked with basically nothing. I've also had nights where I made $400 in tips. I'd say it really averaged out to about 300% of my wage. I'd guess if I was a server today my tips would be equal, or slightly higher than my hourly wage.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Completely agree. I'm sort of waiting to see if the price on the menu goes up at my favorite spots and then I'd feel ok about adjusting the tip accordingly. But most places haven't raised prices yet. I think that's probably the best way to adjust your tipping habits rather than a formula of some kind that tries to predict what a server would usually make. If you notice a price increase, scale it back on the tip.

It does suck for servers though. A lot are going to be going from a hundred a night to an extra $30 bucks on their pay check. Total goof on the ndp for not having a different scale for tip earners.

I think a lot of people who consistently eat out will be scaling tips back as the change is going to be more apparent to them.

I’d go for lunch on a fairly regular basis and my meal would be $20 pre tax and tip. 15% tip got me up to $23 before tax. Now that same meal is going to cost me $21.50 before tax and tip, but the portion size is the same and so is the service, that’s now a 7% tip if I still pay $23. If I tip the 15%, I’m now paying $24.73 with no increase in benefit to me.

The question is, how many people are willing to pay more for the same product without seeing an increase in either portion or quality?