[News] With the 66th OA pick Flames select D Adam Fox

[Robbob]

The more I think about it, it really is fear mongering as you can probably count on one hand the number of times someone takes it all the way to UFA. After 4 years these are his options. Wait till Aug 15 and sign an ELC with anyone or sign his ELC with Calgary and if he gets into a game burn a year and get his first year signing bonus in April and then his second year signing bonus on July 1st. Probably gets close to 200k signing with the Flames with two years worth of signing bonuses vs 95k signing as a UFA.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Robbob

The more I think about it, it really is fear mongering as you can probably count on one hand the number of times someone takes it all the way to UFA. After 4 years these are his options. Wait till Aug 15 and sign an ELC with anyone or sign his ELC with Calgary and if he gets into a game burn a year and get his first year signing bonus in April and then his second year signing bonus on July 1st. Probably gets close to 200k signing with the Flames with two years worth of signing bonuses vs 95k signing as a UFA.

None of those signing bonuses are available if he signs with another team? Honest question, I wasn't aware that was the case.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think he does have the highest ceiling, he's our best prospect in my eyes. I just really like Domi, probably irrationally so.

For me, it goes Fox > Kylington > Andersson > Valimaki.

Which is saying something, because Valimaki is a great prospect. We're loaded on the back-end with high-end prospects, and that's a definite strength.

In reality would it surprise anyone if any (or all) of Kylington, Fox, Andersson, and Valimaki came to training camp and pushed to be NHLers next season. They are all that high of quality of prospects whom have impressed at all levels.

Andersson looks ready right now.

If you look at Fox (in the NCAA, WJC, and USNDTP) his numbers and pedigree are very comparable to Zach Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Noah Hanifin, Trouba, and other young American d-men who had an impact in the NHL after only a year or two at the NCAA.

Valimaki already looked really good at training camp last year, is strong defensively and a PPG in the WHL. Could easily see him forcing his way onto the team at training camp.

Kylington is already in his 3rd AHL season, gets good reviews from the coaches and seems to really be impressing and some people who watch the prospects actually prefer him to Andersson.

And personally I would be all for it. After watching them closely the last two weeks look at how the Bruins 3 rookie d-men (Carlo - 21, McAvoy - 19, and Grzelcyk - 23) came into the lineup this year and completely rejuvenated that team. Specifically Carlo and McAvoy who have played a combined 7 AHL games.

IMO the Flames prospects are just as good as that group, and in some cases out performed their counterparts at the same age in the same leagues. We should try to make sure we can give at least 2 of them the same opportunity to make an impact on our roster next year.
McAvoy = Fox
Carlo < Valimaki
Grzelcyk =< Andersson & Kylington

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by jayswin

None of those signing bonuses are available if he signs with another team? Honest question, I wasn't aware that was the case.

They are available, I think Robbob's point is that the Flames can offer him this if he goes 4 years at Harvard and Fox signs right after Harvard's hockey season is done and gets max signing bonuses.


~April 2020: sign with Flames, 1st year $92.5k signing bonus, burns 1st year of 2 year ELC
July 2020: get 2nd year $92.5k signing bonus, and play 2nd year of ELC
July 2021: RFA



While if Fox signs with any other NHL team on August 15:
August 2020: sign with Team X, 1st year $92.5k signing bonus, doesn't burn 1st year of ELC
July 2021: get 2nd year $92.5k signing bonus, play 2nd year of ELC
July 2022: RFA

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

In reality would it surprise anyone if any (or all) of Kylington, Fox, Andersson, and Valimaki came to training camp and pushed to be NHLers next season. They are all that high of quality of prospects whom have impressed at all levels.

Andersson looks ready right now.

If you look at Fox (in the NCAA, WJC, and USNDTP) his numbers and pedigree are very comparable to Zach Werenski, Charlie McAvoy, Noah Hanifin, Trouba, and other young American d-men who had an impact in the NHL after only a year or two at the NCAA.

Valimaki already looked really good at training camp last year, is strong defensively and a PPG in the WHL. Could easily see him forcing his way onto the team at training camp.

Kylington is already in his 3rd AHL season, gets good reviews from the coaches and seems to really be impressing and some people who watch the prospects actually prefer him to Andersson.

And personally I would be all for it. After watching them closely the last two weeks look at how the Bruins 3 rookie d-men (Carlo - 21, McAvoy - 19, and Grzelcyk - 23) came into the lineup this year and completely rejuvenated that team. Specifically Carlo and McAvoy who have played a combined 7 AHL games.

IMO the Flames prospects are just as good as that group, and in some cases out performed their counterparts at the same age in the same leagues. We should try to make sure we can give at least 2 of them the same opportunity to make an impact on our roster next year.
McAvoy = Fox
Carlo < Valimaki
Grzelcyk =< Andersson & Kylington

...a bit ranty ahead:

I agree, I just don't think the Flames as an organization, Gully as a coach, would ever roll with that many young players. This team has historically chosen veterans ahead of youngsters no matter what. Jankowski didn't make the team out of camp for cripes sake. Brouwer was on the 1st PP unit ahead of Dougie freaking Hamilton until Brouwer got injured. I think it's a cultural issue that the Flames have towards young players. You could make the counter argument that we historically haven't had good enough young players - but in the spots we have, we've done nothing but make mistakes - and have actively made them this season to the detriment of the team.

If we saw:

Giordano - Hamilton
Kylington - Hamonic
Valimaki - Fox
Kulak

next season, I'd be blown away and crazy excited. Brodie and Stone have both been failures in their roles this year, and moving on from one or both wouldn't bug me in the slightest. I think it's longshot that we even have TWO spots open next year for Fox/Valmaki/Kylington/Andersson, let alone 3 or 4.

It's why I think we'll make a trade at this deadline to address an issue up front, and I just hope it's a smart move, because I'm tired of this organization's legacy of failure. 4 playoff round victories since 1989...I was 3 in 1989, I've seen nothing but failure from this organization and I just want to see it making the right moves that lead to this team being a success on the ice.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If we saw:

Giordano - Hamilton
Kylington - Hamonic
Valimaki - Fox
Kulak

next season, I'd be blown away and crazy excited. Brodie and Stone have both been failures in their roles this year, and moving on from one or both wouldn't bug me in the slightest. I think it's longshot that we even have TWO spots open next year for Fox/Valmaki/Kylington/Andersson, let alone 3 or 4.

Yeah - I really hope the team see's that multiple young players can be inserted in the lineup. Nashville, Chicago, Vegas, Tampa, Boston, Pittsburgh have all done this and it's turned around a lot of those teams fortunes over the last 10 years. It is a young person's game now and the Detroit model isn't relevant anymore.

I feel like I could see two spots if they can move Stone but agree no chance for 3 or 4 spots.

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Fox or Andersson
Valimaki or Kylington - Hamonic
Kulak

Pair a young guy with a vet to provide some stabilization (Vegas and Boston have done this). Internal battle in camp for two spots between those 4 guys (2 LH and 2 RH). Gio-Hamilton is still there as an elite pairing to lean on, and you could go back to Brodie-Hamonic for late game, high leverage situations.

Based on the depth d deals so far we should at least be able to fetch a 2nd or 3rd each for Stone or Kulak (or keep Kulak as a good depth guy to rotate in an out of the lineup).

[Yoho]

If Hamonic gets moved to bottom 6 that trade becomes even more obscene for assets given up.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Yoho

If Hamonic gets moved to bottom 6 that trade becomes even more obscene for assets given up.

I think we look at that too much for d-men since PP/PK changes the Ice Time so much.

He's still going to be on your PK1.

And in this case it's really a 2A/2B pairing.

If you think of it as you have 120 minutes of ice time available per game you could look at it as:

Giordano: 22-24 Minutes
Hamilton: 20-22 Minutes
Brodie: 20-22 Minutes
Hamonic: 20-22 Minutes
Rookie 1: 16-18 Minutes
Rookie 2: 16-18 Minutes

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

...a bit ranty ahead:

I agree, I just don't think the Flames as an organization, Gully as a coach, would ever roll with that many young players. This team has historically chosen veterans ahead of youngsters no matter what. Jankowski didn't make the team out of camp for cripes sake. Brouwer was on the 1st PP unit ahead of Dougie freaking Hamilton until Brouwer got injured. I think it's a cultural issue that the Flames have towards young players. You could make the counter argument that we historically haven't had good enough young players - but in the spots we have, we've done nothing but make mistakes - and have actively made them this season to the detriment of the team.

If we saw:

Giordano - Hamilton
Kylington - Hamonic
Valimaki - Fox
Kulak

next season, I'd be blown away and crazy excited. Brodie and Stone have both been failures in their roles this year, and moving on from one or both wouldn't bug me in the slightest. I think it's longshot that we even have TWO spots open next year for Fox/Valmaki/Kylington/Andersson, let alone 3 or 4.

It's why I think we'll make a trade at this deadline to address an issue up front, and I just hope it's a smart move, because I'm tired of this organization's legacy of failure. 4 playoff round victories since 1989...I was 3 in 1989, I've seen nothing but failure from this organization and I just want to see it making the right moves that lead to this team being a success on the ice.

That D-Corp that gets you crazy excited would have 3 rookies and would be an injury away from disaster. Fun in theory but that D would be bottom 10 in the league almost certainly.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yoho

If Hamonic gets moved to bottom 6 that trade becomes even more obscene for assets given up.

Hamonic will be in the top 6 for the entire time he is a Flame.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

That D-Corp that gets you crazy excited would have 3 rookies and would be an injury away from disaster. Fun in theory but that D would be bottom 10 in the league almost certainly.

Rookies does not equal disaster if the players are good enough.

Are they good enough?

If yes, then let them play so we can stop trading picks for veterans, and start trading veterans for picks.

[Muta]

We have amazing depth at defense. Just amazing. Our defense is already young and deep as is, and then you add those four prospects.... unreal.

That said, unless he refuses to sign with Calgary, Fox shouldn't be moved. I have a feeling if we did that, we'd regret that for years to come. Move Brodie, Andersson or Kylington first.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hamonic will be in the top 6 for the entire time he is a Flame.

Hopefully it’s one of top 4 or that trade was sub optimal.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

.
If we saw:

Giordano - Hamilton
Kylington - Hamonic
Valimaki - Fox
Kulak

next season, I'd be blown away and crazy excited.

I get the excitement surrounding our prospects but putting two rookies on the bottom pairing is a recipe for disaster. As is slotting Kylington to play top four minutes as a rookie.

With the pressure this team is under from a fanbase with (a large contingent who have) zero patience, the pitch-forks would be out in less than a week.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

but i believe that issue lies in the CBA of the NFL, MLB and the NBA, which do not allow 18 year old drafts (NFL and NBA) and MLB only if the player has finished HS and hasn't yet played in college or JC

Another reason why the NHL should go to a 19 year old draft.

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Rookies does not equal disaster if the players are good enough.

Are they good enough?

If yes, then let them play so we can stop trading picks for veterans, and start trading veterans for picks.

How many teams dress two rookie defencemen? Let alone three?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Another reason why the NHL should go to a 19 year old draft.



How many teams dress two rookie defencemen? Let alone three?

This year teams that had 2 or more rookies play 40+ games were:

Boston: McAvoy, Gryzelcyk, with Carlo in his second year.
Colorado: Girard, Lindholm
Washington: Bowey, Djoos

Surprisingly all three are in the playoff race.

For the most part I agree though - no way a team banks on going into the season with an open spot for 3 rookies, even 2 is a stretch. It does highlight past mistakes the Flames have made though IMO.

Last year Kulak should have been dressed full time, instead he only played 21 games and is a rookie this year.

This year one of Andersson or Kylington should be here full time, instead they are still both rookies next year.

So now you have this log jam of d-men who can all benefit from NHL time because you have Fox, Kylington, Andersson, and Valimaki who are all going to be knocking on the door or in need of NHL ice time to further develop and you can't try and integrate them all at once.

With the prospect depth the Flames had/have at defense they should have been working harder to get young guys into the lineup the last couple years.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Muta

We have amazing depth at defense. Just amazing. Our defense is already young and deep as is, and then you add those four prospects.... unreal.

That said, unless he refuses to sign with Calgary, Fox shouldn't be moved. I have a feeling if we did that, we'd regret that for years to come. Move Brodie, Andersson or Kylington first.

I couldn't help but read the whole first paragraph in a trump voice...

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

That D-Corp that gets you crazy excited would have 3 rookies and would be an injury away from disaster. Fun in theory but that D would be bottom 10 in the league almost certainly.

Exactly.

The Panthers have 3 defenseman under the age of 22. Despite having a lot of college experience, or even NHL experience in Ekblad's case, the team still struggles defensively.

Putting a bunch of young defensemen in the lineup before they've flat out stolen a job from a veteran is a recipe for a poor defensive team.

[Pizza]

wrong thread

[bax]

For what it’s worth some reporter asked Clayton Keller if there were any current NCAA players that he thinks will make an impact in the NHL and Adam Fox was the first of only 2 names he said