[PGT] Flames lose 2-1 in OT to Bruins

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

You know who is not a bust? Leon Drasaitl.

Lack of patience? It's been three, almost four, years since he was drafted. And hasn't shown anything to think he'll be the #1 centre the Flames drafted. Hell, he can't even play centre. He has regressed every year. He still makes some dump plays and decisions he made three years ago.

You are exactly the type of fan who is driving this idiotic narrative to trade Bennett. If you had a competent coaching staff who would see the glaringly obvious chemistry he has with both tkachuk or gaudreau and would put him on the right hand side in the top 6 we would actually be able to compare him to a Draisatl. As it stands his most skilled (consistent) line mate to date in his career is jankowski who is a rookie.

When you ask him to play a third line role you're stupid to expect anything other than a third line contribution.

Be patient and hope that next years coach has half a brain and move him into the top 6

[TheIronMaiden]

@GranteedEV

I disagree. The Flames primary issues have less to do with their first line, or individual players than you assert.

The Flames primary issue is secondary scoring. The Flames are ranked 20th in goals for this season, which is not surprising considering that the bottom two lines simply do not score.

11 players have played minutes in the bottom six this season. Those 11 players have combined for 31 goals. That is 31 goals in 60 games. 31 out of 169 team goals, and 58% of those 31 goals goals came from two players Jankowski and Bennett.

Blaming Monahan for the Flames short comings is not a substantiated narrative. Hell, he can account for 16% of the Flames scoring. To put that in perspective, 11 other forwards only account for 18% of the Flames goals for.

In the NHL depth is the difference, and the Flames have non in their offence. Every night the Flames dress 4 forwards who are not an offensive threat.

[kukkudo]

I want to give Bennett a chance under a new coaching staff first before people write him off a bust. Also same with Brodie before we trade him away.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

In the NHL depth is the difference, and the Flames have non in their offence. Every night the Flames dress 4 forwards who are not an offensive threat.

...Lazar is getting there though! I think with more patience, that "4 forwards who are not an offensive threat" will become "3 forwards who are not an offensive threat". I imagine Lazar will hit 10-12 goals next year from the 4th line, and that's "effective 4th line hockey" assuming he keeps up his defensive responsibilities.

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I want to give Bennett a chance under a new coaching staff first before people write him off a bust. Also same with Brodie before we trade him away.

I don't think he even necessarily needs that (although team-wide offensive production would likely benefit from a coaching change in my opinion). He just needs another good offensive player to play with, and we'd see his production climb to what people should expect. If you really want to see him develop and thrive (this applies to Janko as well), then the focus should be on getting them a player who is better than both of them individually to help them raise their games up. Asking young players to carry their linemates is not setting them up for developmental success.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

We’ve only played the Oilers 3 times this seaaon and we’ve picked up 1 of 6 points. Even if we won out, we wouldn’t be close to the Knights, we’d be closer to the Sharks. The real reason why we aren’t better is because we can’t score enough. We’re one of the lowest goal scoring teams in playoff contention and most of our offense is generated from 1 player/1 line. It’s the Iggy era all over again with 1 scoring line and all world goaltending.

Don't be obtuse. He is obviously counting all games since GG arrived on the scene.

[djsFlames]

Backlund-Frolik can't hit an empty net this year. That's probably a bigger issue than they entirety of the 3rd line.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

What Boston’s retooling really shows me is that the Flames have a lot of time to get this thing figured out in upcoming seasons.

If there's one anecdotal trend I feel I see that separates two types of rebuilds it's "dynamic" vs "slow and steady/stay the course".

Tampa, Boston etc - These teams have no problem retooling, changing up plans on players, shipping possible stars out for other possible stars, shipping out goalies because a younger one looks great, getting draft picks for vets and forcing young guys in.

Sometimes they stumble because of decisions but they also find gems, et more picks back and try again. It's like they're poking around for a formula, a group of players that works.



Juxtapose that with the typical Canadian team rebuild where fans aren't patient. Every move is a one track move that is now the final move with that player/pick.

-Get draft pick, draft player, he is now our player and we will see him through, we believe he's a centre, we will play him at centre, he will start low and work his way high, it's not working, he will continue to try until it works or it doesn't. It doesn't work, now we will move him over to wing, we will not seek trade we will see it through, now he is a winger, he is not producing, that is disappointing.

[jayswin]

You see it in the fans as well, it's like we've been conditioned to believe that a rebuild is very formulaic and that you believe in every player and see everything through and changing the course at all is indicative of panic.

I mean how many Flames fans were laughing at Steve Yzerman years ago basically saying he was an impatient goof for making so many moves, and playing hardball with guys. It was a lot of fans, I remember it.

But he was always very dynamic and didn't subscribe to a linear rebuild where you draft guys, see every guy through to an NHL spot or failure and then fill any additional needs with free agents. That's Calgary almost to a tee, and it's proving to come with very mediocre results thus far.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by jayswin

If there's one anecdotal trend I feel I see that separates two types of rebuilds it's "dynamic" vs "slow and steady/stay the course".

Tampa, Boston etc - These teams have no problem retooling, changing up plans on players, shipping possible stars out for other possible stars, shipping out goalies because a younger one looks great, getting draft picks for vets and forcing young guys in.

Sometimes they stumble because of decisions but they also find gems, et more picks back and try again. It's like they're poking around for a formula, a group of players that works.



Juxtapose that with the typical Canadian team rebuild where fans aren't patient. Every move is a one track move that is now the final move with that player/pick.

-Get draft pick, draft player, he is now our player and we will see him through, we believe he's a centre, we will play him at centre, he will start low and work his way high, it's not working, he will continue to try until it works or it doesn't. It doesn't work, now we will move him over to wing, we will not seek trade we will see it through, now he is a winger, he is not producing, that is disappointing.

There is so much that was correct about his post except I just can't agree fully because you had to use the entire hing as a Bennett bashing post.

Tampa has been incredibly lucky if you look at how many of their young prospects have turned into stellar NHLers or even normal serviceable NHLers it's really above and beyond normal expectations or what a franchise can expect over the long haul.

Another thing that I would also point to is the coach came from the lightnings AHL system and knows all these young prospects and how to get the most out of them. That probably is why it seems they hit on so many prospects than other teams

But to say the flames are being too patient is foolish...

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

@GranteedEV

I disagree. The Flames primary issues have less to do with their first line, or individual players than you assert.

We'lll have to agree to disagree. A #1C like the ones I named earlier would be centering the Tkachuk line as the driving force, not being the second option on Gaudreau's line. Gaudreau's line is a very good line, but it's Gaudreau's line. A winger's line. And wingers have limitations on a team's play that even the best wingers - guys like Ovechkin and Iginla - haven't been able to solve. Patrick Kane benefited from a first line ahead of him that featured Hossa, Toews, and guys like Sharp or Saad. Phil Kessel benefitted from a first line ahead of hi featuring Sidney Crosby. Your best winger is an important player, but he can't be your most important forward. Just my opinion. Kucherov right now is not playing on Stamkos' line. Bergeron and Marchand do play together, but their line takes on tough two-way matchups because they're two of the best two-way players in the NHL, something Gaudreau nor Monahan will ever be. So long as Monahan and Gaudreau are our clear cut "first line" and we're playing a system that emphasizes forward play over 5-man units then that is the ceiling on this team.

Re: Nashville, their blue line is far ahead of ours in terms of actual (not hypothetical) contribution. Maybe the talent divide isn't deep but the results are obvious, Nashville's a team built around utilizing its defensemen whereas we are a team built around strong forward play, except we don't get strong forward play on aggregate.

Originally Posted by jayswin

You see it in the fans as well, it's like we've been conditioned to believe that a rebuild is very formulaic and that you believe in every player and see everything through and changing the course at all is indicative of panic.

I mean how many Flames fans were laughing at Steve Yzerman years ago basically saying he was an impatient goof for making so many moves, and playing hardball with guys. It was a lot of fans, I remember it.

But he was always very dynamic and didn't subscribe to a linear rebuild where you draft guys, see every guy through to an NHL spot or failure and then fill any additional needs with free agents. That's Calgary almost to a tee, and it's proving to come with very mediocre results thus far.

There are places where you need to stay patient. That is not the issue with this team. You can compare us to Tampa, but they stuck with Hedman and Stamkos through lean years because those are extremely valuable pieces. We have never had pieces with that kind of value. And they struck gold in the amateur scouting department with guys like Kucherov, Johnson, Point, Palat, and Killorn Likewise Boston, they may have shuffled pieces around on the wings, but they're still a team built around that same core group of Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Rask, and yes, Chara. Again they struck gold in the draft with guys like Pastrnak and McAvoy.

It still comes down to having those elite gamebreaking pieces down the middle, the Bergerons and Stamkos, that you can build around. Toronto finally has that in a deadly 1-2 punch of Matthews and Kadri after unsuccessfully trying to build around wingers (Kessel / JVR).

Calgary is mediocre because we don't have those types of pieces. We missed out on MacKinnon, Barkov, McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, and Hischier who are the kind of guys you can shuffle supporting pices around. Monahan is a good player and we have to hope he or Bennett pan out into something more than they are now, because you can't build around wingers. We don't have the kind of luxury you allude to. Treliving knows that for all his struggles, Bennett is a piece that could become better than Monahan or Backlund. There's no luxury to treat a guy like him or even Jankowski as expendable because we're not in a position to do so.

Tampa got Stamkos, and Boston got Bergeron. It's easy to shuffle secondary pieces like a Lucic or Hamilton knowing you have primary pieces like those two.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Flames are rebuilt.

The only players left from the 2013/14 season (first year of rebuild) are Giordano, Stajan, Monahan, Brodie and Backlund.

At that time Backlund was 24, Brodie was 23 and Monahan was an 18 year old rookie.

Since Stajan basically has one foot out the door, and the other three listed were very young at the start, the only true veteran player left from the start is the captain, Gio.

The Flames are rebuilt folks.

Obviously no NHL roster is static, and there are always players coming and going, and adjustments to be made, but the Flames have been completely rebuilt in the last 5 seasons.

I sure hope the young core has more to give, and that some of the peripheral players can be upgraded somehow, because if this is it....I'm sorry, but I'm underwhelmed to say the least.

I expected a 100+ point team this year, true contention for a division title and guaranteed playoffs. Especially after BT dealt away a 1st, two 2nds and a 3rd round draft pick from the 2018 and 2019 drafts to add veteran players.

Hopefully they can get hot again and finish the season strong, but this is not what I was hoping for 6 months ago.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The Flames are rebuilt.

The only players left from the 2013/14 season (first year of rebuild) are Giordano, Stajan, Monahan, Brodie and Backlund.

At that time Backlund was 24, Brodie was 23 and Monahan was an 18 year old rookie.

Since Stajan basically has one foot out the door, and the other three listed were very young at the start, the only true veteran player left from the start is the captain, Gio.

The Flames are rebuilt folks.

Obviously no NHL roster is static, and there are always players coming and going, and adjustments to be made, but the Flames have been completely rebuilt in the last 5 seasons.

I sure hope the young core has more to give, and that some of the peripheral players can be upgraded somehow, because if this is it....I'm sorry, but I'm underwhelmed to say the least.

I expected a 100+ point team this year, true contention for a division title and guaranteed playoffs. Especially after BT dealt away a 1st, two 2nds and a 3rd round draft pick from the 2018 and 2019 drafts to add veteran players.

Hopefully they can get hot again and finish the season strong, but this is not what I was hoping for 6 months ago.

kinda looks like the coaching staff may be what's needed to give them that development boost? Not to mention getting more from the team

[Strange Brew]

I hope that Flames management are not falling in love with their own players. Our trades have seen us giving up pending UFA’s and draft picks.

It’s ok for fans to overvalue our own players and prospects but management should be calculating. Which is not the same as being impatient or giving up on players.

[colbym72]

We all just need to chill the fluff out

[Beninho]

Flames most glaring weakness is secondary scoring outside of Tkachuk. Each line has guys who are very inconsistent scoring wise and can’t fill the back of the net for weeks at a time. Until this issue is fixed we will continue to be mediacore. Our first line is completely fine and it’s this team’s scoring depth that has not been addressed. It has been this team’s biggest hole for years along with goal tending. Treliving found some goalies, now he needs to find scoring. Also, it’s time to break up the 3M line and see if Tkachuk could ignite the 3rd line and stop using Hathaway in a top 9 role.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Monahan continues to be incredibly underrated. He isn't flashy. That's it.

He carries the puck fine. I love how he sometimes takes charge, skates with the puck, looks for an open man, makes a perfect pass and then goes into position to get a rebound. He has done this a bunch of times.

He isn't that dynamic, beat 3 guys to the net by dipsy-doodling, nor is he elite defensively like Kopitar and Bergeron. What is he? He is a bona fide #1 center capable of putting 30+ pucks in the net in any given season, making difficult passes under pressure, being good in all three zones (he is NOT bad defensively - if you think so, you haven't been paying attention), with very little holes in his game.

Monahan is getting better and better. He used to be rather weak along the boards and in front of the net. Not any longer. His playmaking is incredibly under-appreciated. He just isn't flashy, but he knows what to do almost always. I have long stated that Monahan can carry his own line and that Gaudreau should have been moved down to Bennett's line. I think Monahan is a better center when he is carrying the puck. He makes sweet dishes and sees the ice incredibly well. He then goes right to an open space.

People argue that Monahan feeds off of Gaudreau. I argue that what you see is actually synergy. Nobody else on the team finds a hole like Monahan does. Nobody else can shoot that puck as quickly, accurately and deceptively as Monahan does. Nobody can make as quick of a pass somewhere else if he doesn't have a shot. I rarely see Monahan turning the puck over, even when pressured.

Monahan by any metric imaginable is a #1 center, and he is good enough as a #1 center for a team to win a cup with. What this team needs is to play more to their strengths - play at a faster pace, stop the constant D-to-D passing with a constant emphasis on moving as a 5 man unit. All it does is remove our D from the offence as much, and make this team slower. By the time this team starts their transition, the other team is lined up ready to defend, and even their high scoring chances are contested chances. That's why this team hasn't been scoring enough.

Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. What I know for sure is that this team's woes has nothing to do with the fact that Monahan isn't Crosby.