Are there any detailed maps around of the proposed route? The one the City of Calgary website doesn't show much.
No, they all kind of suck. There's some decent details of the central section, but the whole thing is almost too big to show on one graphic with Google Map/satellite overlay. Someone needs to come up with an interactive map where you can zoom in and out to get a sense of where each station is.
Absent of that, you almost have to view the video or look at the drawings from the PDFs to figure out on a finer grain where each station is, how it is oriented, etc.
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You wouldn't think this would be complicated to put out.
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$1billion to go 16th ave to 64th ave? That sounds excessive...
There were some numbers put out in during the council meetings in 2017; $1.3B to Beddington, ~$2B to 96the Avenue, nearly $2.4B to North Pointe. So $1B to 64th is believable in that context.
Extremely disappointing if true. Sad to see the lack of vision by the various levels of government in this regard.
To be fair, the various levels of government ponied up and gave the asked for funding of $4.6B. It's just that the cost of the Green Line has ballooned, to at least $8B to complete and potentially even more given the risks in the tunnel section.
Last edited by accord1999; 03-18-2019 at 12:00 PM.
To be fair, the various levels of government ponied up and gave the asked for funding of $4.6B. It's just that the cost of the Green Line has ballooned, to at least $8B to complete and potentially even more given the risks in the tunnel section.
Acknowledged, you are absolutely correct. I was hoping (and remain hopeful) that a way can be found to build the full line and to build it properly but I fear it will get delayed/shelved well into the future.
Exactly. I acknowledge the merits of the NC vs SE debate, but its better to get the construction started. It is easier to get approvals for continuation of construction. The worst thing that can happen at this stage IMO is shelving or replanning the whole thing and further delaying the start/finish. Infrastructure projects will never get cheaper.
(Maybe we can arm-wrestle the federal and provincial governments to provide the funding they would have provided towards an olympics bid towards other needed infrastructure projects)
Let's just at least get the first phase built, and then work on the money to extend further.
This is not a cheap project, and it's gonna take a long time. At least we're getting it started.
I agree that they should just get shovels in the ground for the funding they have gathered, or it will never get going. But it is still disappointing that utilization studies have shown North will face better ridership but it is politically harder because it involves displacing traffic lanes and houses, so the will is not there.
But it is still disappointing that utilization studies have shown North will face better ridership but it is politically harder because it involves displacing traffic lanes and houses, so the will is not there.
I think the political and popular support is there; it's more of a matter of the planners who have made decisions that are biased in favor of the SE while ignoring ridership and operating costs.
I think the political and popular support is there; it's more of a matter of the planners who have made decisions that are biased in favor of the SE while ignoring ridership and operating costs.
You do realize that the reason for Phase 1 going to 130th Ave SE is because that is where the maintenance & storage facility will be located, correct?
You do realize that the reason for Phase 1 going to 130th Ave SE is because that is where the maintenance & storage facility will be located, correct?
Yes, which is one of the decisions that I feel was biased. Because they didn't seriously consider a location in the North, even though they admitted at one of the Council meetings in 2017 that Aurora Business Park had the space. And by choosing a site that's requires as much track as the entire NW segment along with the construction cost increases, you end up with no money left to build anything useful in the NC.
Last edited by accord1999; 03-21-2019 at 12:15 PM.
It doesn't help that Shane Keating is the head of the Transportation committee, and his ward is on the south line, which he has been pushing for years. I have my doubts he can act in an unbiased manner on these decisions. Once they get to 130th, they should fully prioritize the north line, there is no good reason to continue further south over going north, given the difference in ridership.
It doesn't help that Shane Keating is the head of the Transportation committee, and his ward is on the south line, which he has been pushing for years. I have my doubts he can act in an unbiased manner on these decisions. Once they get to 130th, they should fully prioritize the north line, there is no good reason to continue further south over going north, given the difference in ridership.
As much as Keating helps in the south, Chu hurts the green line going north it seems.
It doesn't help that Shane Keating is the head of the Transportation committee, and his ward is on the south line, which he has been pushing for years. I have my doubts he can act in an unbiased manner on these decisions. Once they get to 130th, they should fully prioritize the north line, there is no good reason to continue further south over going north, given the difference in ridership.
The lone good reason to build out the south first would be if residents up north pick a fight over expropriation. You could finish the south line, where the ROW already exists and was planned out years ago, while resolving any issues with the north.
Once they get to 130th, they should fully prioritize the north line, there is no good reason to continue further south over going north, given the difference in ridership.
Though it seems like at this point, there will be a battle over which of the several staging options presented for Stage 2 will be chosen. Gondek vs Keating.
Though it doesn't help the North that after nearly 2 years after Stage 1 was picked, there has been virtually no land acquisition in the expected NC line to get it ready for construction.
Last edited by accord1999; 03-21-2019 at 12:57 PM.
Chu hurts everything, including my brain. Don't remind me.
To be fair to Chu, the Green Line was supposed to avoid the battle of NC vs SE and I don't think anybody in their worst nightmare would have imagined that $4.6B to only be enough to cover 20km of track, and not even able to build the supposed minimal useful Green Line core of Beddington to Shepard. Even as late as Feb 2017, the Calgary Herald was warning about a truncation but only to Beddington-Shepard:
One of the biggest issues is that the 4.6B estimate was for a fully at-grade LRT system.
The City of Calgary presented their ludicrously biased community engagement regarding whether we wanted at-grade, elevated or tunneled without presenting the trade-offs (pretty standard for City of Calgary - only present trade-offs if they want the consultation to fail - like for the crosswalk at the Peace bridge).
One of the trade-offs of selecting the most expensive method (albeit the best from a technical perspective) is that you would run out of money for the full line. Pretty sure this was already a certainty once the decision to tunnel was made.
I would've been interested to see the consultation results if it was presented that if we do at-grade, we can complete the entire Green Line as planned, but the tunneled would lead to this staged approach we're seeing today.
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