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Old 11-20-2019, 10:01 AM   #81
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Ya, I wonder about the proximity, except that Canmore gas is at least 10c/l higher than Calgary, yet the pumps are always packed, which tells me a lot of it is probably BC sourced traffic that skipped Banff, but can't make Calgary. So I think it would still be relevant to fueer UV filing patterns.


And ya, self driving in winter is a whole other challenge(or hundreds of smaller challenges).
The big difference is almost nobody leaves their house with a full tank of gas. The reason itís always busy there is 3 fold: bathrooms, food, and ďwe have enough gas to make it to Canmore lets get goingĒ. Few people would consider the 10cent difference for that trip out to the mountains, you get on the road as quick as you can.

Nobody with an electric vehicle would leave home without 100% charge. Especially heading to the mountains. They may still use that destination as a washroom/food stop. And may charge if itís available if they are stopping anyway. But itís definitely not a necessity.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:03 AM   #82
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To the last point, it seems that plug-in hybrids have already come and gone and are not that popular. There's too much downside in terms of expense, weight, maintenance, and space in building a car so it can run on gas too. A lot of the plug in hybrids have already been discontinued, and most of the new announcements are pure electric for these reasons.
You sure about that? Here are the current ones:


https://evadoption.com/ev-models/available-phevs/


and near future aditions:
https://evadoption.com/future-evs/


Volvo has talked about electrifying all it's vehicles. This doesn't mean all BEV, it includes all variety of hybrid. I think as the major manufacturers look at electrifying their entire range, we will see a lot more PHEV than full BEV.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:30 AM   #83
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I think that EV's will be a bigger part of the future, not as quick as some people think.
The first Model T rolled of the line 112 years ago it's a bit crazy to expect the BEV to replace an infrastructure and way of life in general straight away right?
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The adoption has been generally slower for a lot of "green" cars and trucks than people want to admit.
The adoption has been much faster than most predicted I've followed Tesla since the beginning (since I own stock) and the amount of negativity, doom and gloom and predictions of failure have been rampant. They've pretty much all been wrong.
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Possibly. I was thinking more along the lines of something like a 1.5L (or smaller) engine in a larger vehicle and the space savings plus a little bit of cargo space used for the remainder battery motor. But the real problem is cost, even if it has a tiny gas engine that still means it has to have a fuel, exhaust and emissions system. That's all very expensive chopping off a couple of cylinders doesn't help much.

I mean, even 1.5L is a bit overkill IMO as I am not intending for the engine to be performance at all. That sized engine is placed in mid sized SUVs as the economical regular driving option and I agree it's bulky. My suggestion for the engine was more along the lines of being able to allow the vehicle to use gas to hobble to a charging station + be a gas generator for electricity in the event the battery reserves are too low. I am literally imagining something like a motorcycle engine would more than suffice and the gasoline tank be something like 5-10L only.
In general the public won't accept a vehicle with variable performance, fast on battery power very slow when the gas engine is powering the car.

BUT, here's and intriguing option check it out. Doesn't have long range on battery power but doesn't compromise performance either.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...er-rav4-prime/

Unfortunately this will be a limited production model, all RAV4's should be the above spec.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:03 PM   #84
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The first Model T rolled of the line 112 years ago it's a bit crazy to expect the BEV to replace an infrastructure and way of life in general straight away right?

The adoption has been much faster than most predicted I've followed Tesla since the beginning (since I own stock) and the amount of negativity, doom and gloom and predictions of failure have been rampant. They've pretty much all been wrong.

In general the public won't accept a vehicle with variable performance, fast on battery power very slow when the gas engine is powering the car.

BUT, here's and intriguing option check it out. Doesn't have long range on battery power but doesn't compromise performance either.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...er-rav4-prime/

Unfortunately this will be a limited production model, all RAV4's should be the above spec.
That's fair about variable performance.

I also think most current hybrids have issues in the sense that the perception is that they're inferior in most ways to a traditional car minus the green aspect. I mean, look at vehicles like the Prius, Leaf, Volt and even other hybrid options of current gasoline vehicles that are offered. They're all wimpy.

Interesting on the RAV4. Kinda in the right direction, maybe? But it's a traditional gas hybrid which is engine with battery strapped on which isn't really moving the needle for many individuals. Do you think a pure EV vehicle with a gas generator to recharge the batteries is a viable possibility for the future? Hell, the gas generator can be a removable unit to give you more storage space for all I care. I just think it would be a good step to move away from the inferior hybrid perception if the generator can run while you drive and extend the distance you can travel without stopping.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:13 PM   #85
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You sure about that? Here are the current ones:


https://evadoption.com/ev-models/available-phevs/


and near future aditions:
https://evadoption.com/future-evs/


Volvo has talked about electrifying all it's vehicles. This doesn't mean all BEV, it includes all variety of hybrid. I think as the major manufacturers look at electrifying their entire range, we will see a lot more PHEV than full BEV.
Everything on this page shows that the BEVs sales are trending way up, while PHEVs have been losing share for years and total sales are trending down significantly this year from last year.

https://insideevs.com/news/358279/us...rison-h1-2019/

PHEVs are not hot sellers.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:49 PM   #86
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We are coming up on replacing one of our current vehicles next year, and a PHEV is currently my front-runner. The details on the new Rav4 PHEV came out today . Looking objectively at our usage, this would be the car my wife would take to work most often. Given that she is 16 km round trip, I could get away with charging it every other night. But we could still use it for grocery trips etc on the weekend. I hate to say it, but the older I get and especially since we sold the family cabin I am just not pounding the miles on a vehicle like I used to. I have two cars and neither gets much more than 8000 km a year.

I will likely dip a toe into going full EV to replace my other car, and again I have a super short commute so I am thinking a used Leaf. My idea on having a shorter range EV is that I only go on longer trips a few times a year, so I can always rent a bigger IC vehicle when needed for less than the cost differential between a Leaf and something like a Tesla 3.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:56 PM   #87
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We are coming up on replacing one of our current vehicles next year, and a PHEV is currently my front-runner. The details on the new Rav4 PHEV came out today . Looking objectively at our usage, this would be the car my wife would take to work most often. Given that she is 16 km round trip, I could get away with charging it every other night. But we could still use it for grocery trips etc on the weekend. I hate to say it, but the older I get and especially since we sold the family cabin I am just not pounding the miles on a vehicle like I used to. I have two cars and neither gets much more than 8000 km a year.

I will likely dip a toe into going full EV to replace my other car, and again I have a super short commute so I am thinking a used Leaf. My idea on having a shorter range EV is that I only go on longer trips a few times a year, so I can always rent a bigger IC vehicle when needed for less than the cost differential between a Leaf and something like a Tesla 3.

The Rav4 PHEV would probably be our next one as well, when it comes time. It works with our commute as well. We were recently having our maintenance done at Toyota and we decided to cruise around the new models and tried asking the sales guy about the PHEV models and he seemed completely disinterested in talking about them at all. Kept suggesting that the hybrids were good enough, and had no idea bout the upcoming Rav4 model. The Subaru might be another option, but some of the reviews don't look great - switching in and out of electric mode, less room in the back, etc.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:15 PM   #88
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The Rav4 PHEV would probably be our next one as well, when it comes time. It works with our commute as well. We were recently having our maintenance done at Toyota and we decided to cruise around the new models and tried asking the sales guy about the PHEV models and he seemed completely disinterested in talking about them at all. Kept suggesting that the hybrids were good enough, and had no idea bout the upcoming Rav4 model. The Subaru might be another option, but some of the reviews don't look great - switching in and out of electric mode, less room in the back, etc.
Subaru is becoming totally irrelevant IMO.

I fataing hate when sales people aren't car people. I hate even more when they don't know the vehicles in their own line-up. I know so many vehicles across so many brands and I'm not even in the industry. How do you not even accidentally learn about the models for your own brand?

My mom just bought a new Rav a couple of months ago and despite my hate for SUVs, the new model is the best of the bunch IMO. I like the CRV interior - maybe even a little better - but the exterior is not very nice.

A plug-in Rav4 would take a good package and make it even better.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #89
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I haven't seen anything that would make me even contemplate buying an EV for my next vehicle choice. I think they still have a long ways to go. If I lived somewheres else then maybe.
I remember when a friend bought the 1st iPhone I thought, too big and heavy for my pocket and way too expensive at about $700.00. I'll keep my little flip phone thank you. It took about 2/3 years and 50% of people had some sort of smartphone including me. 10 years later 99% of us have a smartphone.

My predicton on EV's is Tesla is the new Apple and now everyone will follow in order to compete, engineering $$$ will move from gas/diesel to electric and it's already starting to happen.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:36 PM   #90
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That's fair about variable performance.

I also think most current hybrids have issues in the sense that the perception is that they're inferior in most ways to a traditional car minus the green aspect. I mean, look at vehicles like the Prius, Leaf, Volt and even other hybrid options of current gasoline vehicles that are offered. They're all wimpy.
Volt is discontinued, Leaf is a short range BEV, Prius doesn't really compete with either. On the Prius it's all but dead the "green cred" aura is gone and sedan sales are waning.
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Interesting on the RAV4. Kinda in the right direction, maybe? But it's a traditional gas hybrid which is engine with battery strapped on which isn't really moving the needle for many individuals.
Toyota hybrids sell very well actually the current RAV4 hybrid is very popular.
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Do you think a pure EV vehicle with a gas generator to recharge the batteries is a viable possibility for the future?
You're really stuck on this. No it's not viable the Volt proved it, too much of a compromise.
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Hell, the gas generator can be a removable unit to give you more storage space for all I care.
Really? You think people are going to yanking out a generator from their car? How is something like that ever going to pass emissions standards?
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I just think it would be a good step to move away from the inferior hybrid perception if the generator can run while you drive and extend the distance you can travel without stopping.
That's your perception hybrids are in fact great vehicles at least from Toyota. RAV4 and Highlander for example in hybrid trim are great cars especially for people that drive a lot.

But hey if you want a serial hybrid (that's what you're talking about) go buy a used Volt. How come you don't own one?
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:41 PM   #91
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I will likely dip a toe into going full EV to replace my other car, and again I have a super short commute so I am thinking a used Leaf. My idea on having a shorter range EV is that I only go on longer trips a few times a year, so I can always rent a bigger IC vehicle when needed for less than the cost differential between a Leaf and something like a Tesla 3.
Don't buy a used Leaf unless it's the current generation (that still may be iffy) the original Leaf does not have a battery thermal management system which causes severe degradation it's common to see them with less than half the original range.
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Old 11-21-2019, 04:16 PM   #92
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Have there been any leaks of the new Tesla truck being announced tonight?
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:30 PM   #93
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nm

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Old 11-21-2019, 09:48 PM   #94
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Pretty ugly. Back seat looked like the headroom wouldn’t be great.

I think they overthought trying to be different - there’s a reason why trucks look like they do.

That being said, the price points and cost of operating savings will make this an attractive option.
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:57 PM   #95
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Pretty ugly. Back seat looked like the headroom wouldnít be great.

I think they overthought trying to be different - thereís a reason why trucks look like they do.

That being said, the price points and cost of operating savings will make this an attractive option.
Ugly?! Finally, a truck that's interesting. I'm so tired of how boring and lame and samesies every truck is. I lease a brand new truck every four years for work and its the least exciting vehicle search I do. They are all the same. This one is so much cooler than all the rest.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:03 PM   #96
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Ugly?! Finally, a truck that's interesting. I'm so tired of how boring and lame and samesies every truck is. I lease a brand new truck every four years for work and its the least exciting vehicle search I do. They are all the same. This one is so much cooler than all the rest.
Wicked.

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Old 11-21-2019, 10:05 PM   #97
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Ugly?! Finally, a truck that's interesting. I'm so tired of how boring and lame and samesies every truck is. I lease a brand new truck every four years for work and its the least exciting vehicle search I do. They are all the same. This one is so much cooler than all the rest.
Itís weird in a cool way. Iím hoping they make a van version.

Looks like itís stainless steel like a DeLorean. I wonder if Musk will get charged with cocaine smuggling too.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:06 PM   #98
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Ugly?! Finally, a truck that's interesting. I'm so tired of how boring and lame and samesies every truck is. I lease a brand new truck every four years for work and its the least exciting vehicle search I do. They are all the same. This one is so much cooler than all the rest.
To be fair, I think other pictures Iíve seen now look better than it did on the stage. Headroom still seems like an issue though.

I do appreciate different too. But flattening the roof a bit would help.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:13 PM   #99
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Ho-lee-cow. That is one ugly truck. Clearly Elon was staring at some DeLorean and 1970's car pron to come up with that design. Which I would describe as a blend tin snips and Home Depot Aisle 14 HVAC materials.

Didn't we see this on Top Gear already?



I also laughed at how the demonstration of bullet proof glass backfired in way not seen since the 2010 Vancouver Games...



That said, clearly from the Tonka tires this is an early concept... I expect the production model will have these minor details and design issues addressed in.... 4 years.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:19 PM   #100
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I think until there are thousands of these things in a city, you'd feel like a total wanker driving one around.
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