Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GGG

The past few years would have been good years to throw money at the problem. Lots of service rigs were under employed and abandoning wells would have been a good recession stimulation program for the government for work that needs to be done.

The big issue is some of the very dubios transfers of assets that have been allowed which have led to companies bankrupting themselves leaving massive liabilities on the province.

First paragraph: uh yes? So just like the 235 million investment the OWA got?

Second paragraph: while that’s a whole different discussion, and there needs to be change, there still hasn’t been any tax payer dollars gone to it. Outside of very old legacy stuff which the government pays for no matter the industry. See the west side of downtown as an example.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Corral

?? So are you telling people here that the OWA receives all the money it needs each year to clean up all the inventory of abandoned wells and facilities in Alberta? Like there is no unfunded liability here?

Please tell me you have more than this.

Why would the OWA need to abandon all the wells every year? There is no risk. And everything that has risk is dealt with.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Corral

?? So are you telling people here that the OWA receives all the money it needs each year to clean up all the inventory of abandoned wells and facilities in Alberta? Like there is no unfunded liability here?

Please tell me you have more than this.

What irks me is the size of budget the owa has and how little they accomplish. Top that with rumors of high costs due to family friend service kick backs.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Husky

What irks me is the size of budget the owa has and how little they accomplish. Top that with rumors of high costs due to family friend service kick backs.

I mean besides being totally wrong in this assessment. Your user name makes the comment hugely ironic.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Weitz

First paragraph: uh yes? So just like the 235 million investment the OWA got?

Second paragraph: while that’s a whole different discussion, and there needs to be change, there still hasn’t been any tax payer dollars gone to it. Outside of very old legacy stuff which the government pays for no matter the industry. See the west side of downtown as an example.

Why are dubious transfers a different discussion? These transfers were approved on the back of the house of cards which is known as the OWA and the AER liability ratio scheme.

And nice one with reference to the 235 million‘investment’. Otherwise known as a taxpayer loan to industry that won’t be repaid.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Why would the OWA need to abandon all the wells every year? There is no risk. And everything that has risk is dealt with.

Do you even know what you are talking about?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Corral

Why are dubious transfers a different discussion? These transfers were approved on the back of the house of cards which is known as the OWA and the AER liability ratio scheme.

And nice one with reference to the 235 million‘investment’. Otherwise known as a taxpayer loan to industry that won’t be repaid.

I meant the dubious transfers are something that needs to be discussed. That is something that absolutely needs to be looked at and things are on the move.

You obviously haven’t actually determined what the loan was. The feds gave 30 million. The Alberta government (NDP at the time) instead took that 30 million and used it to take 235 million to give to them over 10 years. So the 30 million from the feds is being used to pay the interest of the 235 million loan. All of which is being paid back with 30 million a year from the levy.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Corral

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Way more than you know my friend. But I’m sure the 2 articles you have read makes you an expert.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I meant the dubious transfers are something that needs to be discussed. That is something that absolutely needs to be looked at and things are on the move.

You obviously haven’t actually determined what the loan was. The feds gave 30 million. The Alberta government (NDP at the time) instead took that 30 million and used it to take 235 million to give to them over 10 years. So the 30 million from the feds is being used to pay the interest of the 235 million loan. All of which is being paid back with 30 million a year from the levy.

The levy you talk of is set by the AER which itself takes orders from its industry masters. I’m not expecting much of that loan to be repaid with the AER in charge of ensuring it happens. Nor should anyone else. But you keep on spinning your fiction. Nobody believes it anymore.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Corral

The levy you talk of is set by the AER which itself takes orders from its industry masters. I’m not expecting much of that loan to be repaid with the AER in charge of ensuring it happens. Nor should anyone else. But you keep on spinning your fiction. Nobody believes it anymore.

This idea that the AER is controlled by industry can only be said by someone who has never worked with the AER.

[PsYcNeT]

It's rare but I'm 100% with Weitz on this. You're out to lunch on the OWA/AER.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It's rare but I'm 100% with Weitz on this. You're out to lunch on the OWA/AER.

It’s something I’m very passionate about and more then happy to discuss further via pm.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by GGG

This idea that the AER is controlled by industry can only be said by someone who has never worked with the AER.

Really? Because the last time I looked the AER is fully funded by industry money. Self regulation at its finest. Dismissive of public concerns about the industry... senior execs using aer time and money for private gains.... almost zero transparency.... etc

Oh and who approves all these dubious transfers to shady entities that ultimately leave the losses in the public hands? You guessed it the AER

Sought to be’best in class regulator’. What a laugh that is. Worst in class by miles

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Corral

Really? Because the last time I looked the AER is fully funded by industry money. Self regulation at its finest. Dismissive of public concerns about the industry... senior execs using aer time and money for private gains.... almost zero transparency.... etc

Oh and who approves all these dubious transfers to shady entities that ultimately leave the losses in the public hands? You guessed it the AER

Sought to be’best in class regulator’. What a laugh that is. Worst in class by miles

We will wait for proof of this. But as usual I’m sure we will wait for a long long time.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Corral

Really? Because the last time I looked the AER is fully funded by industry money. Self regulation at its finest. Dismissive of public concerns about the industry... senior execs using aer time and money for private gains.... almost zero transparency.... etc

Oh and who approves all these dubious transfers to shady entities that ultimately leave the losses in the public hands? You guessed it the AER

Sought to be’best in class regulator’. What a laugh that is. Worst in class by miles

Who appoints the board of the AER?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Corral

Really? Because the last time I looked the AER is fully funded by industry money. Self regulation at its finest. Dismissive of public concerns about the industry... senior execs using aer time and money for private gains.... almost zero transparency.... etc

Oh and who approves all these dubious transfers to shady entities that ultimately leave the losses in the public hands? You guessed it the AER

Sought to be’best in class regulator’. What a laugh that is. Worst in class by miles

Funded by levies from industry, different than funded by industry. I just equate it to user fees. That being said a levy system does quite work when licencing and drilling are substantially down.

Also regulations are passed on from the government, things like the OGCR and REDA are the back bone of regulations that are put in place by government. The dirwctives are created leveraging those. With all legislation it is tough to adapt quickly since it has to go through edmonton. The whole move at the speed of government.

Regarding the whole outgoing CEO, yeah that is a black eye, but that is far from the norm. Dude had a complete disregard of what the mandate of the AER was supposed to be and went and did something completely stupid to set himself up after the AER. All the emails and texts that were in the report don't exactly paint him in a positive light and rightfully and hopefully a career killer. So those execs have all been let go and I hear the ripple effects of people under them are leaving as well. It will be interesting to see the next steps when the CEO come in.

In regard to those transfers, they were all legal. Sketchy but legal and done in accordance to the rules. There is a reason the AER took a few items to the courts and thankfully for the people of Alberta won the redwater decision.

There will always be people to try and play the system, that is just the way things are now days.

[Weitz]

Orphan levy is based on liability %. So being a responsible operator is rewarded.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I mean besides being totally wrong in this assessment. Your user name makes the comment hugely ironic.

Dont work for husky - just have a husky dog

[Red Potato Standing By]

Well it’s a good thing you don’t have a Shih Tzu.... Ok I will show myself out...

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Corral

Really? Because the last time I looked the AER is fully funded by industry money. Self regulation at its finest. Dismissive of public concerns about the industry...

The extremely O&G industry friendly UCP government campaigned on, and actually went through with, removing the entire AER board because they were not industry-friendly enough. Ironically, slow approval process because of public concerns is one of the major reasons that the entirety of the board is looking for work.

The AER, like most government agencies and boards, will reflect the government of the time because it's quite literally their boss. The government will set their mandates, and those who want to keep their jobs will do so. Who funds them doesn't mean anything.

It's pretty much as meaningless as the jackass who yells at a cop for pulling them over "You can't give me a ticket, I pay your salary through my taxes!"