I find this funny only because others have said the conditions are so specific they're very unlikely to be met.
Me, I'm leaning towards "there's no way to know even how likely this is". So many variables.
What I will say is, at least it's an interesting clause It will definitely give the fans something extra to talk about for at least half the season. Kind of makes me wish more trades had weird conditionals like this.
Yup. Every trade should have prop bets attached to them. Would be so awesome for fan interest!
The funny thing will be if Neal is close to the 21 goals/10 more than Lucic threshold going into the final game of the season and both teams are locked into their place in the standings. Will the Oilers scratch Neal so he can't hit the required stats? Will the Flames start feeding Neal breakaways and letting him score?
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Scratching Neal if he's close to hitting the conditions on the pick would be such an incredibly dick-ish thing to do, such an Oilers thing to do, and exactly what a player deserves if they willingly go to Edmonton.
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I find this funny only because others have said the conditions are so specific they're very unlikely to be met.
Me, I'm leaning towards "there's no way to know even how likely this is". So many variables.
What I will say is, at least it's an interesting clause It will definitely give the fans something extra to talk about for at least half the season. Kind of makes me wish more trades had weird conditionals like this.
Oh man yeah. I dont know overall, I mean, a 3rd rounder in the hands of Edmonton is basically toilet paper,.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!
Scratching Neal if he's close to hitting the conditions on the pick would be such an incredibly dick-ish thing to do, such an Oilers thing to do, and exactly what a player deserves if they willingly go to Edmonton.
Yup. And pissing Neal off enough to make the rest of his tenure in Hell even more fun for third parties.
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The funny thing will be if Neal is close to the 21 goals/10 more than Lucic threshold going into the final game of the season and both teams are locked into their place in the standings. Will the Oilers scratch Neal so he can't hit the required stats? Will the Flames start feeding Neal breakaways and letting him score?
Why wouldn't they? Neal doesn't have any performance bonuses to lose out on and I'm sure he would be fine with sitting in the press box for the last game of the year it it helps the team hold on to a draft pick. In your scenario the Oilers have a fair case to scratch any veteran player that may be a little banged up (most are this time of year) and insert an AHL player in their place for a look.
The funny thing will be if Neal is close to the 21 goals/10 more than Lucic threshold going into the final game of the season and both teams are locked into their place in the standings. Will the Oilers scratch Neal so he can't hit the required stats? Will the Flames start feeding Neal breakaways and letting him score?
Will the Flames feed Lucic more than normal, placing him on the 1st PP unit ahead of deserving others?
Call me crazy, but I could see a scenario where Lucic plays with Johnny and Monahan. Monahan and Johnny aren't exactly the fastest guys and their game isn't built on speed. Johnny uses disception, agility, vision and edge work more than pure speed. Monahan is about release and hockey iq. Lucic is all about physicality, body positioning, and creating space.
Lucic might actually be a decent fit for the following reasons:
- Puck Retrieval. Lucic is physically intimidating and while he is slow off the rush, he's fine during zone play. One of the issues in the playoffs was that if Johnny or Monahan lost the puck, it was out of the zone. Lucic will help to sustain zone time by helping to get those pucks back from bigger body defensemen and centermen. When Lucic wants the puck in a short distance battle, he usually gets it because that's where his elite skill-set is.
- creating space in offensive zone. This is the big one and doesn't really need explanation. Whether playing picks, hitting the defenseman off a dump in, standing in front of the net or holding on to the puck...he creates space.
- corsi monster. Lucic might be slow, but it's hard to get the puck off him. T
- Johnny-Lucic could be infuriating to play against. One guy dances and dangles around you, the other guy crushes your body, steam rolls you and then plays keep-away with the puck. If they can click it would be insane.
Call me crazy, but I could see a scenario where Lucic plays with Johnny and Monahan. Monahan and Johnny aren't exactly the fastest guys and their game isn't built on speed. Johnny uses disception, agility, vision and edge work more than pure speed. Monahan is about release and hockey iq. Lucic is all about physicality, body positioning, and creating space.
Lucic might actually be a decent fit for the following reasons:
- Puck Retrieval. Lucic is physically intimidating and while he is slow off the rush, he's fine during zone play. One of the issues in the playoffs was that if Johnny or Monahan lost the puck, it was out of the zone. Lucic will help to sustain zone time by helping to get those pucks back from bigger body defensemen and centermen. When Lucic wants the puck in a short distance battle, he usually gets it because that's where his elite skill-set is.
- creating space in offensive zone. This is the big one and doesn't really need explanation. Whether playing picks, hitting the defenseman off a dump in, standing in front of the net or holding on to the puck...he creates space.
- corsi monster. Lucic might be slow, but it's hard to get the puck off him. T
- Johnny-Lucic could be infuriating to play against. One guy dances and dangles around you, the other guy crushes your body, steam rolls you and then plays keep-away with the puck. If they can click it would be insane.
I don't like that line once they lose possession of the puck. We know Gaudreau isn't good defensively and Monahan is mediocre (though he could be better IMO). I don't know how Lucic is in his own zone. But backchecking must be an issue for him because of footspeed.
^ surprised you didn’t wait for the hysterics to stop before starting this conversation
Maybe. But I also really liked the Lindholm and hanifin for Dougie trade on day 1 and I remember the hysteria around that one.
In a lot of ways it's the same issues that hold people back. Is Lucic we've seen in Edmonton all that's left of him? I don't think so. Peak Lucic was 60 points. Effective Lucic gets around 40+. Last two years he got 34 points and 20 points.
Everyone is complaining about Lucics speed. But his game was never built around speed, which declines quickly with age.
Instead his game is built around puck retrieval, puck control and creating space. Those skills decline less slowly with age. So Lucic shouldn't have declined this fast this quickly. So what else has happened? Possible options include lack of chemistry with linemates, non-engagement, lack of confidence. I think these issues are fixable in Calgary. And even if Lucic isn't top 6, he still fills a roll of a $2m player.
Neal might be ok in Edmonton - he still has a good release. But in Calgary he was never in the right spot, didn't go to the dirty areas, didn't create space for linemates, was not creative, didn't think the game well and was slow. I can see Neal putting up points with McDavid, but I can also see him not working out at all. And if he's not a top 6 player, he's not a player.
The risks around both players is high. But the trade makes sense to me. Neal wasn't going to work in Calgary; Lucic might.
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Call me crazy, but I could see a scenario where Lucic plays with Johnny and Monahan. Monahan and Johnny aren't exactly the fastest guys and their game isn't built on speed. Johnny uses disception, agility, vision and edge work more than pure speed. Monahan is about release and hockey iq. Lucic is all about physicality, body positioning, and creating space.
Lucic might actually be a decent fit for the following reasons:
- Puck Retrieval. Lucic is physically intimidating and while he is slow off the rush, he's fine during zone play. One of the issues in the playoffs was that if Johnny or Monahan lost the puck, it was out of the zone. Lucic will help to sustain zone time by helping to get those pucks back from bigger body defensemen and centermen. When Lucic wants the puck in a short distance battle, he usually gets it because that's where his elite skill-set is.
- creating space in offensive zone. This is the big one and doesn't really need explanation. Whether playing picks, hitting the defenseman off a dump in, standing in front of the net or holding on to the puck...he creates space.
- corsi monster. Lucic might be slow, but it's hard to get the puck off him. T
- Johnny-Lucic could be infuriating to play against. One guy dances and dangles around you, the other guy crushes your body, steam rolls you and then plays keep-away with the puck. If they can click it would be insane.
Maybe Lucic gets the post-PK shift in lieu of Lindholm?
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I still am on the fence about this one. I like the toughness, but it remains to be seen if Lucic still has a desire to play that game.
One positive, is that Lucic is coming in and no one is expecting him to be a top 6 contributor, and he knows that. Neal came to Calgary with everyone slotting him (himself included) in a top 6 scoring role. Neal probably has more pressure to be that going to Edmonton than he did when he came to Calgary, as Edmonton needs the scoring help in a bad way
I did a quick google for opinions, because I had some time on my hands. Here's a few of them, with a couple of quickly picked quotes. I did not include ones that made comments based on the cap situation without knowing the Oilers retained some salary. I also specifically didn't want opinions from Calgary or Edmonton
The comforting part about reading all these opinions was, there was a strong correlation between not knowing Oilers had retained some salary (ie. being an obviously uniformed commentator and a bad writer), and really hating the deal for Calgary. In general the more level-headed opinions tend to sway Edmontons way slightly, but in general they don't hate the deal for either side.
quotes:
"Who got the better player, that's who won the trade"
"Edmonton Oilers got the better player"
"Calgary is already very good, and they were very good even with bad James Neal, so even though James Neal is the better player right now, Calgary is thinking 'we got pushed around in the playoffs, we don't want that to happen again'"
(counterpoint) "(Lucic) is not going to be on the very much in the playoffs"
"In dollars it's a big steal for Calgary"
"I could see a win for both teams"
"This is a trade that both teams had to make"
Sportsnet
Quote:
"You have to believe that James Neal has the better chance of finding it"
- The Flames depth sets up a good situation for Lucic in Calgary... A 30 to 40-point season would be a successful season and not entirely unattainable. (bold statement bolded because it deserves it)
- Oilers fans claim trade victory because of unrealistic expectations.
Even with the acknowledgement that the James Neal situation had become untenable in Calgary, the decision to trade him for Milan Lucic of all the people in the league should be considered a fireable offense.
- While both 31-year-old forwards had down years, each failing to exceed 20 points with their respective clubs, they are both much-needed assets and should be able to benefit both teams
- This deal can actually be considered a big win for the Oilers.
- The trade from the Flames side isn't the worst... they didn't lose a key offensive piece in Neal, and they won't be getting one in Lucic - not only that, they don't really need it with their current depth. So what does Calgary get with this deal? Mainly a strong off-ice presence, something that the Flames need more than anything given their youth
Last edited by Itse; 07-23-2019 at 04:08 PM.
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For now, Lucic is probably the better overall player, particularly if Neal’s personal shooting percentage doesn’t rebound (and maybe even if it does). The trade is a welcome change of scenery for two players who were likely to be malcontents had they remained with their original teams this upcoming season. The Flames and Brad Treliving also get something they’ve long been hunting for – a big, strong, nuclear deterrent.
Some of those comments seem to be missing some key points:
- We finished 2nd overall in points with Neal doing nothing
- We finished 2nd overall in goals scored with Neal doing nothing
- Neal provided no offence with no intangibles
- Lucic could also provide no offence, but has physical intangibles
- Nobody was taking on Neal's contract without another bad contract coming back
- Edmonton went from paying $6M for 4 more years of Lucic to paying $6.5M for 4 more years of Neal
- Calgary went from paying $5.75M for 4 more years of Neal to paying $5.25M for 4 more years of Lucic
- Edmonton was paying $6M, and is now paying $6.5M
- Calgary was paying $5.75M, and is now paying $5.25M
- Edmonton is spending $0.5M more for a 31 year-old that does nothing if he's not scoring
- Calgary is spending $0.5M less for a 31 year-old that hits and scares the sh*t out of people even if he's not scoring
- Edmonton sucks
- Calgary does not suck
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It will definitely give the fans something extra to talk about for at least half the season. Kind of makes me wish more trades had weird conditionals like this.
