Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

One other note (and please know that even though I hate this trade, I do think Lucic is a better fit for the Flames than Neal):

Lucic had to ask if going to Calgary would be a good move. Think about that for a minute - you are stuck on the worst franchise in pro sports, no hope of playoffs this year, and a team that finished 2nd overall in the NHL is asking for you, and you have to take your time to see if its a good move?????

Guess he really isn't the brightest of bulbs lol

No idea on his intelligence, but it was a direct rivalry with some recent bad blood. That comes into it.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

As opposed to paying $5.75M for a very ineffective 3/4 liner (or maybe a scratch, like game 5).

Originally Posted by the2bears

As opposed to having Neal in the line-up?

Uggh. The point still stands. It's mid July of 2019. The situation is not so dire that you absolutely have no choice but to take this deal right now.

Ideally you don't want James Neal at 5.75 come this time next year either and are able to use that cap room more effectively.

Again. Any chance of moving out the 5.75(now 5.25) is now dead, way before it needed to be.

This will be my last post on the topic. You may now celebrate.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

One other note (and please know that even though I hate this trade, I do think Lucic is a better fit for the Flames than Neal):

Lucic had to ask if going to Calgary would be a good move. Think about that for a minute - you are stuck on the worst franchise in pro sports, no hope of playoffs this year, and a team that finished 2nd overall in the NHL is asking for you, and you have to take your time to see if its a good move?????

Guess he really isn't the brightest of bulbs lol

As much as people around here don’t like to admit it, Calgary is not exactly known for being a great city compared to most in the NHL. Whether that’s true or not is a matter of debate and personal opinion, but the fact remains that it’s on most player’s “no trade” lists right alongside Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Buffalo. It makes sense that he would want to do his homework first.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

One other note (and please know that even though I hate this trade, I do think Lucic is a better fit for the Flames than Neal):

Lucic had to ask if going to Calgary would be a good move. Think about that for a minute - you are stuck on the worst franchise in pro sports, no hope of playoffs this year, and a team that finished 2nd overall in the NHL is asking for you, and you have to take your time to see if its a good move?????

Guess he really isn't the brightest of bulbs lol

Did you just question the length of time it takes to uproot a family and change teams? From your own experience, how long should this take?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Uggh. The point still stands. It's mid July of 2019. The situation is not so dire that you absolutely have no choice but to take this deal right now.

How can you know this?

To me actions help make assumptions, and the assumptions made based on this deal are ...

1) they wanted Neal gone
2) this was the only deal on the table
3) from talking to the league they didn't think any thing else was coming along

Those aren't facts, they're my inferences based on the action taken on Friday.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

As much as people around here don’t like to admit it, Calgary is not exactly known for being a great city compared to most in the NHL. Whether that’s true or not is a matter of debate and personal opinion, but the fact remains that it’s on most player’s “no trade” lists right alongside Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Buffalo. It makes sense that he would want to do his homework first.

I think everyone knows simply because soulchoice has mentioned it approximately 450 times over the years.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Bingo

How can you know this?

To me actions help make assumptions, and the assumptions made based on this deal are ...

1) they wanted Neal gone
2) this was the only deal on the table
3) from talking to the league they didn't think any thing else was coming along

Those aren't facts, they're my inferences based on the action taken on Friday.

I looked at my calendar.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

This will be my last post on the topic. You may now celebrate.

Liar!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I looked at my calendar.

You have a calendar that shows the exact time of year when NHL players with bad contracts need to be moved?

Wow!

Can I see it?!?!?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Edited for the point missed

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

It's mid July of 2019.

Originally Posted by Bingo

How can you know this?

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I looked at my calendar.

(Chuckle)

Originally Posted by Bingo

You have a calendar that shows the exact time of year when NHL players with bad contracts need to be moved?

Wow!

Can I see it?!?!?

Swing and a miss

[Robbob]

It took me awhile to digest things. I think one of the biggest things to get past was it helped the Oilers. The more I thought about it and with the Oilers eating salary on Lucic and with their current list of buyouts, both players will be on the roster until the expansion draft at the very least.

In no way are the Oilers is a better position cap wise as there is very little chance they will buy Neal out and add 2M over 6 years. If Neal was the only buyout then sure I could see it, but once you add Sekera, Pouliot and the 750K from Lucic it would be around 6.6M is dead cap space if they bought him out after 1 season.

At the end of the day it is change of scenery change for both players. Both are bad contracts and I find it unlikely that any of the players will live up to their cap hit.In the end, in a cap system, you have to work with what you have. Neal's contract wasn't going away and it clear he wasn't a fit. Lucic does fit a better role on the team. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out. I just keeping going back to my original thought that I hope this isn't helping the Oilers.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

One other note (and please know that even though I hate this trade, I do think Lucic is a better fit for the Flames than Neal):

Lucic had to ask if going to Calgary would be a good move. Think about that for a minute - you are stuck on the worst franchise in pro sports, no hope of playoffs this year, and a team that finished 2nd overall in the NHL is asking for you, and you have to take your time to see if its a good move?????

Guess he really isn't the brightest of bulbs lol

Darren Haynes articulated this on the Fan today and it makes sense. If you are heading for a breakup with your spouse you typically are not moving to the other side of the duplex. Looch preferred getting out of Alberta but once he was presented with this option he changed his mind quickly when talking to people with ties to the city and team.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Until the dust settles and this time next year we are looking at options to improve the team and wish we weren't right up to the cap paying $5.25M for a 4th line player.

But then we would be $2MM closer to the Cap, as we are still paying James Neal $5.75MM, and this replacement 4th line player likely no less than $1MM, and likely more if it is Hathaway as suggested.

The league minimum for 2021-22 is $750,000.00, so at a minimum we are $1.25MM worse off by keeping Neal and adding a 4th line player for 2021-22.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Edited for the point missed








(Chuckle)





Swing and a miss

Huh?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Until the dust settles and this time next year we are looking at options to improve the team and wish we weren't right up to the cap paying $5.25M for a 4th line player.

What about 5.75M for a complete y useless player which was a legit risk with Neal. At least Lucic can play in the role we need. Neal was literally useless

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

As much as people around here don’t like to admit it, Calgary is not exactly known for being a great city compared to most in the NHL. Whether that’s true or not is a matter of debate and personal opinion, but the fact remains that it’s on most player’s “no trade” lists right alongside Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Buffalo. It makes sense that he would want to do his homework first.

Likely a lot more to do with high Canadian tax rates for upper-income earners than a lot of other things....like really frickin' cold and snowy.Or just plain boring.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bingo

How can you know this?

Originally Posted by Bingo

You have a calendar that shows the exact time of year when NHL players with bad contracts need to be moved?

Wow!

Can I see it?!?!?

You're doing the exactly the same thing when saying this deal was the only one that could have been inked.

[tkflames]

Looking forward to next year around this time...once you get past all of the Oilers hype machine about how Neal can turn around his career and is training with Gaty Robert's (much like he has previous years)....you realize that the Oilers are actually paying more cap space/$$ than they were last Thuraday. I would rather be in the position where you are hoping for a 31 year old to still be physical....than for a 32 year old to regain his scoring touch.

Even if they stick him on McDavids wing and he is somehow force fed 20 goals...that is a lot of effort going toward a $6.5M player that only plays at one end of the rink.

I am waiting for the response up north the first time McD gets hit...

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by zamler

You're doing the exactly the same thing when saying this deal was the only one that could have been inked.

I think this was the only deal that could be made where the Flames were not giving up any assets. For the anchor contract the Flames walk away with 750k more cap space and if Neal blows up in Edmonton a 3rd round pick.

At the end of the day you still have two bad contracts. Holland and Trevliving are buddies and found an opportunity to help each other out as the status quo for each team apparently not something each was willing to try again.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think this was the only deal that could be made where the Flames were not giving up any assets. For the anchor contract the Flames walk away with 750k more cap space and if Neal blows up in Edmonton a 3rd round pick.

At the end of the day you still have two bad contracts. Holland and Trevliving are buddies and found an opportunity to help each other out as the status quo for each team apparently not something each was willing to try again.

That's a big maybe from me. As I said before if management wanted Neal gone yesterday then sure this deal was very likely the only option. But that's not the bone of contention for me it's people saying this was the only deal possible, full stop. And yes some have essentially said this.