[GT] Day 12 (PM of February 15 - AM of February 16)

[Skaloper]

Originally Posted by blender

I just can't accept that this is the best Canada can muster for a hockey team without NHL players. They never looked dangerous at any point in the tournament that I saw.

I can just look at the current NHL players by country...taking that many away to choose from is a huge amount.

Canada – 310 (43.0%)
United States – 190 (26.4%)
Sweden – 71 (9.8%)
Finland – 40 (5.5%)
Russia – 37 (5.1%)

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by blender

I just can't accept that this is the best Canada can muster for a hockey team without NHL players. They never looked dangerous at any point in the tournament that I saw.

NHL or AHL (without permission). That's like 1000 players.

[Strange Brew]

The men's hockey tournament just isn't meaningful. I'm not really too upset.
Over the moon happy for the short track team.

Watched the last several ends of the women's curling game. The Jones rink were lucky the score was as close as it was. It was evident with almost every shot that they are playing with no confidence. This is not a case of the rest of the world getting better, they're just playing poorly. Such a shame, she is a great champion. I really don't see how they magically turn it around, although a win against Denmark would give them two shots at a medal.

[SebC]

USA hockey is out too. We're not the only ones who couldn't take the hit.

[SebC]

Like, if we knew the NHL wasn't going, then maybe you can tempt some guys to skip a season in the AHL or something to be part of the national team. But that's not what happened. It's not just that the NHL didn't go, it's that we thought that they were until it was too late to do anything about it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by SebC

Like, if we knew the NHL wasn't going, then maybe you can tempt some guys to skip a season in the AHL or something to be part of the national team. But that's not what happened. It's not just that the NHL didn't go, it's that we thought that they were until it was too late to do anything about it.

Would that be possible? Say they knew well in advanced like in Pyeongchang. Say Canada wanted Pelletier, would the Flames release him? We sent a pretty bad team in 2018 too. It's basically the Spengler Cup team.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by blender

I just can't accept that this is the best Canada can muster for a hockey team without NHL players. They never looked dangerous at any point in the tournament that I saw.

It might have been the two best goalies (sadly), but definitely some weird selections for forward and defense (e.g. Cracknell, Staal, Ferraro, Grant, Ellis, etc.) when better players were available. Overall though, the team had enough talent to compete for gold...lots of the selected players are still very good and productive in the euro leagues.

Coaching ultimately sunk the team. Eric Staal on the first line and leading the forwards in ice-time despite being completely useless in that role was horrible decision making by Julien. Ho-Sang was buzzing out there, but he was stapled to the bench the last two games...for reasons. Playing the kids (Johnson and McTavish) together instead of sticking them with vets most of the time was also a bizarre move. Pulling the goalie before getting possession against the Swedes...what? Maxim Noreau also seemed very underutilized the whole tournament.


The only thing Julien did right was play Tomkins over Pasquale.

[calgarygeologist]

Very surprising to see Canada and the US out at the QF stage.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The men's hockey tournament just isn't meaningful. I'm not really too upset.
Over the moon happy for the short track team.

Watched the last several ends of the women's curling game. The Jones rink were lucky the score was as close as it was. It was evident with almost every shot that they are playing with no confidence. This is not a case of the rest of the world getting better, they're just playing poorly. Such a shame, she is a great champion. I really don't see how they magically turn it around, although a win against Denmark would give them two shots at a medal.

Yeah, the women's game, Canada's been behind for awhile now. Since 2009 Canada's only won the Worlds twice, 2017 Homan and 2018 Jones. That's 2 out of 12. And you can add 2014 Olympic gold by Jones. That's it. And Einerson finished 6th last year in Calgary barely qualifying Canada for the Olympics. And like the World Junior hockey, Canada hosts every other year. That should be an advantage.


So if Canada doesn't make the playoffs two straight Olympics, I think there needs to be a re-think. Are the teams playing too much, are the burnt out from grand slams? Do we need to get rid of the tradition of provinces and have the Scotties and Brier just the best 8 super teams in Canada?


Gushue I think is okay, but barely. And the men have been better, 5 out of 12 plus 2010 and 2014 gold.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Would that be possible? Say they knew well in advanced like in Pyeongchang. Say Canada wanted Pelletier, would the Flames release him? We sent a pretty bad team in 2018 too. It's basically the Spengler Cup team.

Not talking about players being released - that's what the NHL and NHLPA collectively decided wouldn't happen. But you might get some journeymen UFAs who decide a shot at Olympic gold is worth to them than a year in the AHL, or some particularly bold college/CHL kids to delay their ELCs.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Biathlon question. Why do they get spare bullets in the relay? That's no fun.

Similar to the Snowboard Cross relay having a maximum offset start interval, it's manufacturing drama. Relays aren't as fun when there's no competition, and the spare bullets will make or break a team.

I haven't watched the Women's relay yet, but in the Men's relay you can see this in action as ROC had a big lead going into the final shooting and with the spares there was a chance they could still win despite the ridiculously poor shooting.

On a related note, in the Men's Relay Scott Gow was amazing again at shooting and was the reason Canada finished 6th. They should be extremely happy with that result given that the medal positions are pretty much a lock with the powerhouse teams.

[GirlySports]

hmm. but I think that's counterproductive too. If Canada shoots clean at any station and ROC is doing 4 penalty loops instead of reloading. That will tire him out too.


Anyways, I just thought it was weird and not as fun as the individual races.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

hmm. but I think that's counterproductive too. If Canada shoots clean at any station and ROC is doing 4 penalty loops instead of reloading. That will tire him out too.


Anyways, I just thought it was weird and not as fun as the individual races.

I agree with you. I don't really like how it was done in Snowboard Cross and I don't really like it here either. It's definitely something I've been trying to understand from the organizer's perspective. I have to assume it's something that came about due to how previous testing or results showed something needed to change?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yeah, the women's game, Canada's been behind for awhile now. Since 2009 Canada's only won the Worlds twice, 2017 Homan and 2018 Jones. That's 2 out of 12. And you can add 2014 Olympic gold by Jones. That's it. And Einerson finished 6th last year in Calgary barely qualifying Canada for the Olympics. And like the World Junior hockey, Canada hosts every other year. That should be an advantage.


So if Canada doesn't make the playoffs two straight Olympics, I think there needs to be a re-think. Are the teams playing too much, are the burnt out from grand slams? Do we need to get rid of the tradition of provinces and have the Scotties and Brier just the best 8 super teams in Canada?


Gushue I think is okay, but barely. And the men have been better, 5 out of 12 plus 2010 and 2014 gold.

Great post. Homan, Carey, Jones, Einarson - not a lot of success internationally. But I have no doubt there are some of the best curlers in the world.

I can't help but think Jones is different than other Olympic athletes. Forty seven years old, not overly fit. Is that a factor when you get to Olympic level competition and stress? I know curling is different than other sports but are other teams more athletic?

[blender]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Great post. Homan, Carey, Jones, Einarson - not a lot of success internationally. But I have no doubt there are some of the best curlers in the world.

I can't help but think Jones is different than other Olympic athletes. Forty seven years old, not overly fit. Is that a factor when you get to Olympic level competition and stress? I know curling is different than other sports but are other teams more athletic?

Agree with the comment about Jones and fitness/age. She's past her prime.

I question the tournament qualification system Canada is using. I feel it would be more effective to select the teams based on aggregate recent performance rather than winning a single event.

Not that I am any authority on the matter, but we must examine our processes as these results are disgraceful for a nation with our history in the sport.

[sleepingmoose]

I think Curling is at the point that everyone claims they want for Womens Hockey - the rest of the world has caught up to Canada after being in the Olympics for 30 years. I agree that we need to keep updating the qualification process to find the best teams to send to the Olympics, but really I think other teams are sometimes just better.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

I agree that we need to keep updating the qualification process to find the best teams to send to the Olympics, but really I think other teams are sometimes just better.

There's definitely no problems with losing to superior teams, but watching many of these games it doesn't feel like that's what happened. It feels like lots of uncharacteristic mistakes you don't see often that build up to these losses. I think that's why there's all this discussion. Why the inconsistency?

[GirlySports]

Yeah, these tournaments are so weird. For example, China beat Sweden, Canada and GB but lost to Denmark and ROC, the two at the bottom right now.

But you're right, Jones should not be missing 4 foot runbacks. They're just been off, rocks curling too much or too little. But like I said, Einerson last year at Winsport was pretty much this bad and that was a 14 team field. That was a long week.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

There's definitely no problems with losing to superior teams, but watching many of these games it doesn't feel like that's what happened. It feels like lots of uncharacteristic mistakes you don't see often that build up to these losses. I think that's why there's all this discussion. Why the inconsistency?

Yeah curling is still a sport we should be great at. I imagine there are far more curlers in Canada per capita than any of these other countries. Forget per capita, just in total.

We need to figure out what is missing in performance on the international stage.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Why are there so many competitors in the men's slalom? It is almost like they are letting anyone that wants to participate compete in this event.

I've never even heard of a country called Timor Leste before.

So the Timor Leste guy finished both runs, over 2 minutes total behind the leader. But that's 45th out of 88 guys! 43 guys who didn't finish haha.