Star Trek General Discussion

[getbak]

Whenever PoochieMichael's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, "Where's PoochieMichael?"

[timun]

I had this to say earlier about season 2 of STD:

Originally Posted by timun

It kind of felt like a backdoor pilot that lasted an entire season, because Pike and the Enterprise crew were far more interesting than the rest of the show. It's kind of sad, really. Michael Burnham is just too detestable a character and Sonequa Martin-Green is, frankly, not a good enough actor to carry Discovery.

Locke is right, the writers are throwing **** at the wall and hoping it sticks.

The fact that the Enterprise crew characters, particularly Anson Mount's 'Pike', were more interesting than the Discovery crew cardboard cut-outs characters is emblematic of the massive, massive problems of that show. Frankly it's just... dumb. It's a dumb show with terrible writing.

I look back on TOS, TNG, DS9 and yeah they had a lot of hokey moments, but they also had all these wonderful allegorical stories and morality plays. Some characters were better written than others, or more thoroughly fleshed out than others, but at least they were woven into a story wherein they were shown to be competent people. STD characters other than Burnham are pointless and stupid; their actions are irrelevant, they contribute essentially nothing to the story, they're just occupying seats on a bridge set. If they killed them all off and replaced them in the next episode it would be meaningless to the overarching story. TOS/TNG/DS9 had one-off characters who were better characterized than 90% of the main cast of STD. I feel sorry for the actors, as surely they didn't set out to be a part of something so tedious.

I re-watched a fourth-season episode of TNG relatively recently, one wherein Geordi Laforge is kidnapped by the Romulans and brainwashed into assassinating the governor of a Klingon colony fighting for independence. (A bit of an homage to The Manchurian Candidate.) At one point they discover Enterprise's cargo transporters were surreptitious used to send weapons to the rebels and the records have been expertly falsified, and Worf asks the engineers working on it "which members of the crew could have accomplished this?" Laforge says he could have, so could Data of course, and Chief O'Brien, and Lieutenant So-and-so.

Point being there were several subject matter experts on the ship, and they all could have done it. The ship was full of smart, competent people, and even this extremely difficult cover-up could have been accomplished by more than one person on the ship. We as the viewers know it was Laforge himself who did it, and it's the first clue Worf/Data have that it was Laforge because when asked for alibis: Data and the unseen Lt. What's-his-face were at their duty stations, O'Brien was with Keiko in a public place, and Laforge says he was in his quarters and has no alibi.

That story would never have happened on Discovery, because Michael Burnham is the only one who does anything anyway so of course it would have been her. Or it would have been one of the background characters with no plausible reason or explanation, and Burnham—and only Burnham—could have figured it out. (Whereas in the TNG episode it's Data who ultimately deduces that Geordi has been brainwashed, but Data wouldn't have figured it out nor stopped Geordi without Picard, Riker and Worf's help.)

[Locke]

First of all your primary take-away from that should have been:

"Locke is regularly right."

Secondly, I agree with you. The thing is, ST:TNG isnt exactly avant garde brilliant stuff. It was a weekly serial show that largely followed a 'Monster/Villain/Problem of the Week' format.

But it had a world and characters that you cared about. You knew when it was going to be a Picard episode or a Data episode or a Geordi or Worf or Riker episode or an ensemble episode or *shudder* a Crusher or Wesley episode...

But you cared about the world, you cared about the characters, you cared about the ethos.

Thats what Star Trek has really lost. Its a team, everyone plays their part and thats how they develop solutions to problems. One of the principle themes of Star Trek was about working together for common good and communal goals.

And STD appears to have wound that clock all the way back to essentially needing a 'Jesus figure' to save everyone. All the time.

At which point the actions and contributions of the rest of the crew/characters really doesnt matter. Which is entirely counter to what Star Trek is all about.

[SportsJunky]

This season is close to unwatchable and that's saying something.

[KTrain]

I'm a Discovery apologist and I have to agree. It's been terrible. Visually great but I cant get any emotional connection with these characters.

[CaptainCrunch]

I just don't get what they were thinking of, when they decided to have two seasons in a row dealing with a galaxy destroying phenomenon. We had the burn that destroyed all the dilithium and stopped intergalactic travel, and destroyed every warp capable star ship (Of course created by an upset child).


Now we have this massive I don't know how to describe it but randomly traveling planet destroying gravametric phenomenon. I'm sure it was created by a god dog fart or something.



Its not interesting at all. But have they really had a good villian.



Not really, the mirror universe stuff was bad, as was the AI that destroyed the galaxy. The Klingon recreation was so bad that they actually had to shift it near the end to make them more like the normal Klingons.



Its just been such a badly written series so far.



Someone mentioned above that if they killed a bridge member that nobody would care. Well they did that a couple of years ago, with the cyborg and really it was a blip because nobody cared about her character. then they bought the actress back to literally play officer in yellow uniform number 2.

[OutOfTheCube]

Lorca was a great villain in season 1 but they had to shoe in all the weird Klingon stuff.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Lorca was a great villain in season 1 but they had to shoe in all the weird Klingon stuff.

The way that he went out was just awful.


Its funny because I was looking up Michelle Yeoh and the actor who played Voq who were suppossed to do the section 31 series, and there's nothing about it, I wonder if its been put in a can

[Shazam]

Should I watch s4?

* reads comments *

Nope.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not really, the mirror universe stuff was bad, as was the AI that destroyed the galaxy. The Klingon recreation was so bad that they actually had to shift it near the end to make them more like the normal Klingons.

I had legit forgotten about that.
Is that why it was such a big deal the computer has a name now?

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Someone mentioned above that if they killed a bridge member that nobody would care. Well they did that a couple of years ago, with the cyborg and really it was a blip because nobody cared about her character. then they bought the actress back to literally play officer in yellow uniform number 2.

Wait, what? That random lady that the camera always pans to on the bridge?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by craigwd

I had legit forgotten about that.
Is that why it was such a big deal the computer has a name now?







Wait, what? That random lady that the camera always pans to on the bridge?

Yeah the blonde lady played Ariem the android. Then they bought her back and gave her a name, and she just wanders around in the background.

[timun]

Originally Posted by locke

first of all your primary take-away from that should have been:

"locke is regularly right."

[CaptainCrunch]

BTW the Center Seat documentary on Crave is a fabulous look at Star Trek history from the TV series to the animated series to the Paramount channel (failed) to the movies.



Its narrated by Gates McFadden, its a lot of fun with great episodes. The 3rd one with the motion picture has an interview with the writer and he's hilarious, and hated Roddenberry with a passion.

[Wormius]

Taking a break from Discovery - restoring ST:TMP would be pretty cool, though I don’t know if I could stomach the transporter incident in better resolution. That whole scene haunts the hell out of me when I think about it.

https://ca.startrek.com/gallery/upda...motion-picture

[CaptainCrunch]

As much as I loved the Enterprise from the original series, mainly because it was ground breaking. The Enterprise refit was just beatiful. A really nice sleeker version and the square warp nacelles really gave it a agressive look.



In fact my top 10 Star Trek Ships has to be


1) Klingon D7 - STMP - It just looked like a Klingon brute force war ship. With its long next and huge torpedo tube on the front and the one on the rear it looked like it had one purpose and that was to go to war. Because of the darker shade of grey it just looked better then TOS D7


2) Enterprise A refit - As I mentioned above, just a gorgeous looking ship. it looked sturdier then the original series enterprise, it looked more rackish


3) ST-3 ST-4 STNG - Klingon Bird of Prey - a smaller almost like frigate. A small crewed ship. It had variable wings and looked like its name sake. It looked fast and lethal. Combine that with the cloaking device and its just looks like a game changer. I loved captaining the BoP in Klingon Academy and once destroyed a Constitution class star ship using hit and fade attacks with my cloak


4) ST TWOK Reliant - Known as a Miranda Class cruiser. It was certainly smaller then the larger constitution. But it just had a design that looked compact and solid. the add on of the twin shuttle bays at the back was very cool.



5) Romulan Bird of Prey - I think it only appeared once and that was in the awesome exercise Balance of Power. Basically a center disk with two nacelles and armed with a heavy plasma weapon and a cloak it was designed to be nothing more then a weapon of terror. It had the nifty paint job on the bottom of a giant Bird of Prey. It was an aggressive design


6) Soverign Class Star Trek First contact and on - Basically a Constitution Class on steroids. It looked like it had severe fire power. The best scene in first contact was the first look at this massive ship. With a darker Grey paint job it looks like it would fit in with a mirror universe ship.


7) Defiant class DS9 - I don't know why this ship appeals to me, its basically a disk. But everything about it defied usual federation conventions. It wasn't a flying hotel, it wasn't built to explore. It was built for war, even when we saw the inside we didn't see amazing crew cabins or a advanced medical bay. Basically everything was built around the idea of a WW2 submarine, and that's why they cloaked it.


8) Borg Cube - Its not beautiful. But whoever designed this ship was brilliant. This ship went against everything we like in ship design. Where sci fi fans are raised on sleek lines and a rocket ship type of look the Borg Cube was a cube. But you have to look deeper to appreciate it. This wasn't just a slab block of metal, it had layers over layers on it and really good lighting. It was also incredibly deadly, could heal itself and looked like a relentless predator.


9) Jem'Hadar battle cruiser DS9 - It's just a brutal looking ship, and virtually indestructible. Its built to look intimidating and it is. One of the best scenes was in the episode where Red Squad attacked it and we see it erupt in a huge fireball and then just keep on coming.


10) Enterprise NX-1 - I liked this design because it just looked simple. On top of it, this ship was pretty much outclassed by every ship in the galaxy. It had a look that borrowed from the P-38, had a darker hued hall and just looked sleek.

[dammage79]

1. Excelsior class Federation ship (yeah that's right, Excelsior and Enterprise B baby! Absolute favorite)

2. Klingon bird of prey (Star Trek motion picture series)

3. Sovereign class Federation ship

4. Constitution class refit

5. Klingon K'T'inga Class Battle Cruiser (VI Undiscovered Country)

6. Valdore type Romulan warlord (star trek nemesis, no, not the stupid dreadnought the Enterprise E fought)

[Inglewood Jack]

Valdore and D’deridex are legit sexy ships, I’d force that quantum singularity anytime.

[Monahammer]

No love for the defiant?

Enterprise-E for me. Conny refit (Ent-A) probably second.

But the wide nacels on that D always get me humming...

[Inglewood Jack]

a couple other ships I like for stupid reasons

Daedalus class - so ugly that it almost goes all the way around to beautiful



Prometheus class - the ship I would have designed as a 10 year old. shaped like a dagger! quad nacelles! splits into 3! warp 9.99!

[Wormius]

I have only liked the Federation ships with the circular saucer sections. Things too weird during TNG with the designs.