Evan Woolley's motion to reconsider Flames Arena funding fails 4-11

[Bigtime]

I think this all goes down tomorrow. Woolley puts it out there, Farkas seconds and then it goes to a vote (maybe after some debate?). I dunno exactly, I don't follow council like I used to.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Torture

That seems like a reasonable position.

Its a common position. If this was about flood mitigation people outside the river communities say the same thing.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by GGG

The green line scope needs to be re-evaluated since the province is backing down. A BRT may be the right solution if the Feds were to buy in.

300 million doesn’t meaningfully change the outcome of a 4.5 billion dollar project

quoted for truth

This "motion" is nothing more than posturing/grandstanding at a time where the Flames are vulnerable on multiple fronts and its not surprising when you look at the those involved.

The Project is doomed whether they get this 300 million or not, either way the green line project wont happen.

Really sad imo, especially as a Flames fan.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It will be fine if the Hitmen is the only game in town. Which it surely will be if this were to go through.

Simple amendment to the agreement whereby the Flames stay in the Dome for 5-7 more years and the money in the short term can be transferred to the Green Line. When you are balancing the provincial budget everyone can pitch in. It is a win win for Albertans and Calgarians.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Its a common position. If this was about flood mitigation people outside the river communities say the same thing.

Common Position ≠ Reasonable Position

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Makes sense to me, the city’s budgetary situation recently changed and this money can be better used on transportation. The Dome is fine.

I would say the City's transit situation is fine.

Green line has always been pointless in my mind, there is already tons of transit options on Centre street, 14th st, and edmonton trail.

a train line up there doesn't serve "the population" very well, is exorbitantly expensive and truly will give less people enjoyment or use than a new arena.

[Manhattanboy]

Should this pass I would expect an immediate announcement by CSEC that the Flames will not re-negotiate with the City and will be exploring all relocation options.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I don't live in the SE, so imo the green line can pound sand. Mackenzie towners can take the bus a while longer.

LOL, nor do I *checks location*.

And yet, I can see the value in having a meaningful discussion about the merits of using taxpayer dollars to build infrastructure to help ease road congestion, lessen the need for downtown parking, make working commutes easier, create accessibility to various education institutions and entertainment districts, and you know, reduce greenhouse emissions. Compare that to the merits of a new entertainment facility that is the home to a team that resonates with city identity and creates a lot of charitable work.

I can see the reasoning on both sides. I'm still in favour of the new building overall, but there is an entirely rational position behind NOT allocating taxpayer dollars towards a new building.

And you could see how it's equally silly for someone who doesn't love hockey to say "I'm never going to use a new arena, so those hockey fans can go pound sand."

[Torture]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I would say the City's transit situation is fine.

Green line has always been pointless in my mind, there is already tons of transit options on Centre street, 14th ave, and edmonton trail.

a train line up there doesn't serve "the population" very well, is exorbitantly expensive and truly will give less people enjoyment or use than a new arena.

I'm not so certain residents of the SE and NE / North centre (?) would agree that a train line to their communities doesn't serve the population very well.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

LOL, nor do I *checks location*.

And yet, I can see the value in having a meaningful discussion about the merits of using taxpayer dollars to build infrastructure to help ease road congestion, lessen the need for downtown parking, make working commutes easier, create accessibility to various education institutions and entertainment districts, and you know, reduce greenhouse emissions. Compare that to the merits of a new entertainment facility that is the home to a team that resonates with city identity and creates a lot of charitable work.

I can see the reasoning on both sides. I'm still in favour of the new building overall, but there is an entirely rational position behind NOT allocating taxpayer dollars towards a new building.

And you could see how it's equally silly for someone who doesn't love hockey to say "I'm never going to use a new arena, so those hockey fans can go pound sand."

It's actually not equally silly. One is public infrastructure and one is for private enterprise.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Should this pass I would expect an immediate announcement by CSEC that the Flames will not re-negotiate with the City and will be exploring all relocation options.

I would expect the Flames to be in the Toyota Center in Houston within 12 months. The City would have made an actual enemy, and it would be a sad, sad turn.

Good thing it won't happen.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Torture

I'm not so certain residents of the SE and NE / North centre (?) would agree that a train line to their communities doesn't serve the population very well.

good for them, they are entitled to their opinion. I think more buses would do the trick just as well and cost us a hell of a lot less.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

So what is the shortfall on funding of the Green line if they actually do this? I suspect neither project happens.

[kermitology]

Prudent thing to do given the current budget challenges that the city is facing. Green line is dead anyway in my mind unless the city can get the federal government to put in money up front.

If you want someone to blame, look at the UCP. There was a way forward prior to their budget, but it's evaporated.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's actually not equally silly. One is public infrastructure and one is for private enterprise.

They both provide value to the public. Not everyone needs the Green Line transit and not everyone needs a new entertainment facility (not just for Flames games you know). Yet, they both add value to the city for various reasons.

Yes, it is silly. You'll have to reckon with that reality at some point.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

They both provide value to the public. Not everyone needs the Green Line transit and not everyone needs a new entertainment facility (not just for Flames games you know). Yet, they both add value to the city for various reasons.

Yes, it is silly. You'll have to reckon with that reality at some point.

Again, no they don't. An arena provides value to its customers. Infrastructure and public transit provides value to the public, even the people that don't use it.

[Bigtime]

So who are votes that will be a "lock" to go against Woolley's motion? I'm thinking:

-Magliocca
-Sutherland
-Davison
-Demong
-Nenshi
-DCU

That right there ends it.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by nik-

Again, no they don't. An arena provides value to its customers. Infrastructure and public transit provides value to the public, even the people that don't use it.

I can tell you now that I get less than zero value from them building the Green Line. I cannot foresee a situation where I will ever end up riding it, or being impacted by the "decrease" in traffic by more people taking it.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So who are votes that will be a "lock" to go against Woolley's motion? I'm thinking:

-Magliocca
-Sutherland
-Davison
-Demong
-Nenshi
-DCU

That right there ends it.

Really wish Woolley wasn't my MLA... What a fool

[nik-]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I can tell you now that I get less than zero value from them building the Green Line. I cannot foresee a situation where I will ever end up riding it, or being impacted by the "decrease" in traffic by more people taking it.

Ok, but reduced traffic and emissions still exist, whether you want to feel impacted by it or not.