I'll tell you one thing that's frustrating as hell is having a selfish, narcissistic, overbearing parent who is completely unsupportive of your weight loss efforts. I try to go for dinner with my dad once a week and he always wants to go for pizza. I've mentioned on countless occasions that I'm trying to restrict my carb intake but I always get guilted with #### like "Well one day of having pizza won't hurt," "I only get to have pizza when I'm with you," or "Well you drink on the weekends so it's not fair that you won't eat pizza with me," despite the fact that I've mentioned about a thousand times that when I drink on the weekend, it's usually zero carb drinks like gin and soda or vodka seltzers.
Anyone else deal with this type of manipulative bull#### and have any suggestions? I've gotten to the point where I'm pretty comfortable turning down unhealthy foods at the office, but I just get tired of putting up a fight when it comes to dealing with my dad.
not a solution to the root of the problem, but just eat the toppings off the pizza next time.
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I'm staggered by this. Higher calories, less protein, more net carbs (85g vs 94g), more fat, more sodium. Who gives a crap about 4g less sugar when everything else is trending in the wrong direction.
The power of marketing in action... ffffffff.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
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Question for those on the Keto Diet. Did you do this purely to lose weight? Or to feel the positive effects of ketosis? Or both? What exactly do you feel like when you're in a state of ketosis?
I don't get the superplant toppings, just the cauliflower crust. They are meat alternative ones, and often higher calories than the regular toppings (most meat alternative items are significantly higher calories).
You are doing exactly what I just started. IF, 1600 unless I'm doing a gym day then I go to 2100....and no booze.
First week I dropped 6.2 lbs.
I have a bit of a hierarchy I try and follow to make it easier and sustainable long term. 5 days a week I follow this plan (my work days).
1) 16-18 hour fast , eating my 1st meal around 11-noon
2) I wont snack or eat after 7pm
3) If net carbs under 60 I wont really count my calories
4) If net carbs are between 80 to 100 I'll try and keep my net calories to under 1500
5) If net carbs are over 100 I've ####ed up
Question for those on the Keto Diet. Did you do this purely to lose weight? Or to feel the positive effects of ketosis? Or both? What exactly do you feel like when you're in a state of ketosis?
I did it primarily to lose weight. Once I did, I kept with it because I just felt like I had more energy and was less sluggish when I was off carbs. That's not just a side effect of being lighter, because I went back on carbs for a while and found that lower carbs yielded better results for me. Less bloated too, which makes sense when you consider low carb will reduce your fluid retention.
The 'keto flu' is only when you first start, and once you've been fat-adapted previously, getting back to it is so much easier with a much shorter 'keto flu' period.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
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I did it primarily to lose weight. Once I did, I kept with it because I just felt like I had more energy and was less sluggish when I was off carbs. That's not just a side effect of being lighter, because I went back on carbs for a while and found that lower carbs yielded better results for me. Less bloated too, which makes sense when you consider low carb will reduce your fluid retention.
The 'keto flu' is only when you first start, and once you've been fat-adapted previously, getting back to it is so much easier with a much shorter 'keto flu' period.
Same. I also find I am not nearly as hungry. I used to constantly snack, now I have much more control over my appetite.
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It is not really a gimmick, it has been around for years. It is a proven model to go into Ketosis to burn fat. I am not struggling at all with it, just thought a support thread would be cool.
It is a gimmick, that fact that it has been around for years doesn't negate that.
Ketosis is a metabolic process that happens in everyones body, not a state of being. High levels of ketones put allot of strain on the systems to balance PH, making it likely that in the long run this type of diet is relatively unhealthy for your liver, kidneys and pancreas (although as with any dietary concern its almost impossible to control for or proven, this is just a likely hypothesis based on the mechanisms that are at work).
In general if the dietary advice you are getting is to put strong restrictions on a specific group of foods, you are getting poorly sourced, unfounded advise, that is in fact a gimmick designed to sell books. If you are being advised to eat a diverse diet that is mostly (but not all) vegetables, you might have found someone listening to a reputable nutritionist. The problem with this advice being that it is very vague and unmarketable.
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Been keto almost over 2 years, I strict it out a few times a year for about 3 weeks. Lost over 30 lbs initially and have maintained since. I’m completely energized and use my Sous vide to its fullest potential.
As for social drinking, I’ll never give it up. I was a big beer drinker and was in heaven while working at Craft. But I changed it up - now it’s Pinot Noir’s, Sauv Blanc’s and Vodka water or soda.
It took a while to find my balance but I found a great plan/guide and have never looked back.
(If anyone would like a keto plan, I’d be happy to share)
I would be interested in looking at a plan, or any other links people might have for starting out.
I would be interested in looking at a plan, or any other links people might have for starting out.
I used dietdoctor.com when I was doing Keto and really liked it. Recipes were really good and making meal plans and with printable grocery lists was convenient.
Also some good visual aids showing how different fruits/foods/alcohols compare for carb levels.
I don't do keto anymore but did like the site.
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I do definitely think there's a solid scientific basis to the satiation aspect of ketosis. Humans have only had access to higher levels of complex carbs since modern farming came into being. Modern farming has only been around for about 10,000 years, with some human populations not using it until modern times. There are no natural sources of complex carbs. All complex carbs come from plants that have become sources, only after centuries of breeding by humans. Plants like potatoes, wheat, and rice are very different in their natural states, and even then humans require a large amount of processing to consume them.
I never go full Keto, but lots of periods of low carb. Once your body gets used to the decreased volume of food, you definitely notice that the protein and fat will keep you satiated and your body responds very poorly to larger calorie sources composed primarily of carbs.
I also think that ketosis is a bit of a gimmick though. However, any diet that gets people to eat consistent protein and low carbs is going to work. So I'm all for people doing it, if it works for them.
It is a gimmick, that fact that it has been around for years doesn't negate that.
Ketosis is a metabolic process that happens in everyones body, not a state of being. High levels of ketones put allot of strain on the systems to balance PH, making it likely that in the long run this type of diet is relatively unhealthy for your liver, kidneys and pancreas (although as with any dietary concern its almost impossible to control for or proven, this is just a likely hypothesis based on the mechanisms that are at work).
In general if the dietary advice you are getting is to put strong restrictions on a specific group of foods, you are getting poorly sourced, unfounded advise, that is in fact a gimmick designed to sell books. If you are being advised to eat a diverse diet that is mostly (but not all) vegetables, you might have found someone listening to a reputable nutritionist. The problem with this advice being that it is very vague and unmarketable.
congrats! Literally everything you posted here is incorrect.
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I do definitely think there's a solid scientific basis to the satiation aspect of ketosis. Humans have only had access to higher levels of complex carbs since modern farming came into being. Modern farming has only been around for about 10,000 years, with some human populations not using it until modern times. There are no natural sources of complex carbs. All complex carbs come from plants that have become sources, only after centuries of breeding by humans. Plants like potatoes, wheat, and rice are very different in their natural states, and even then humans require a large amount of processing to consume them.
I never go full Keto, but lots of periods of low carb. Once your body gets used to the decreased volume of food, you definitely notice that the protein and fat will keep you satiated and your body responds very poorly to larger calorie sources composed primarily of carbs.
I also think that ketosis is a bit of a gimmick though. However, any diet that gets people to eat consistent protein and low carbs is going to work. So I'm all for people doing it, if it works for them.
Thinking it make sense, is not a scientific basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianman
congrats! Literally everything you posted here is incorrect.
How so?
Is that Ketosis is a regularly occurring homeostatic process that essential to everyones metabolic process and is happening every day in everybody, diet or not?
Is it that excessive prevalence of BetaHyroxibutylate, and other aminos related to metabolizing fats can acidify the blood, causing strain on the Liver, Kidneys, and Pancreas trying to maintain very tight controls on PH levels, so you don't die. Is that acidic blood is heavily correlated with future instances of heart and lung disease?
Is it that any good nutritionist will tell you that there is no simple all-truism for what makes a good diet, but generally most of us just need to eat an overall lower volume of food, and allot more vegetables?
Is it the the primary focus of whatever one of these diets cycles through ever 3 years, is selling a simple catchy explanation that you can put into a book?
Is it that severally restricting specific groups of food from your diet can cause, selective vitamin deficiencies, that are best treated by eating a broad diverse diet?
Is it that even if there is the tiniest chance, the the supporting studies with weak controls showing a single digit relative benefit are correct, it isn't really worth all the other related risks?
Which of these claims in unture?
It isn't Keto specifically but these diets in general. They bug me, because they are typically a type of psudoscience that smart people are blind to, because of they way they are heaped in personal virtue signalling, and they fade over time typically leaving society and peoples understanding of the facts in a worse place than they were before.
If you are being advised to eat a diverse diet that is mostly (but not all) vegetables, you might have found someone listening to a reputable nutritionist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #-3
Is it that any good nutritionist will tell you that there is no simple all-truism for what makes a good diet, but generally most of us just need to eat an overall lower volume of food, and allot more vegetables?
Any good, reputable nutritionist doesn't call themselves a nutritionist; they call themselves a Registered Dietician, which is the legally protected term.
As for everything else you've claimed, sources please.
Any good, reputable nutritionist doesn't call themselves a nutritionist; they call themselves a Registered Dietician, which is the legally protected term.
As for everything else you've claimed, sources please.
As with most dietary topics, good research is hard to find, basically because you can't depend on accurate reporting for trial subjects. So most of the studies surrounding the impacts of Ketones on health is related to type 1 diabetes.
Basically there is a good body of evidence that high enough ketone levels in your blood is a critically dangerous condition. And a growing body of evidence that long term exposure to high levels generally just wears on your organs that control for this.
These fad diets needing to be based around a simple catch phrase that can sell a book doesn't seem all that provable to me, but it also doesn't seem like an extraordinary claim.
My last claim was that you could not find a well controlled study that would show a substantial enough benefit to offset the risks of a diet like this.
As with most dietary topics, good research is hard to find, basically because you can't depend on accurate reporting for trial subjects. So most of the studies surrounding the impacts of Ketones on health is related to type 1 diabetes.
Which as we'll soon see is the problem with your claims; you don't appear to understand the difference between nutritional ketosis and ketoacidosis as it pertains to diabetics, and are conflating the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #-3
Basically there is a good body of evidence that high enough ketone levels in your blood is a critically dangerous condition. And a growing body of evidence that long term exposure to high levels generally just wears on your organs that control for this.
RESULTS:
Ad libitum energy intakes were lower with the LC diet than with the MC diet [P=0.02; SE of the difference (SED): 0.27] at 7.25 and 7.95 MJ/d, respectively. Over the 4-wk period, hunger was significantly lower (P=0.014; SED: 1.76) and weight loss was significantly greater (P=0.006; SED: 0.62) with the LC diet (6.34 kg) than with the MC diet (4.35 kg). The LC diet induced ketosis with mean 3-hydroxybutyrate concentrations of 1.52 mmol/L in plasma (P=0.036 from baseline; SED: 0.62) and 2.99 mmol/L in urine (P<0.001 from baseline; SED: 0.36).
CONCLUSION:
In the short term, high-protein, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets reduce hunger and lower food intake significantly more than do high-protein, medium-carbohydrate nonketogenic diets.
Recent work over the last decade or so has provided evidence of the therapeutic potential of ketogenic diets in many pathological conditions, such as diabetes, polycystic ovary syndrome, acne, neurological diseases, cancer and the amelioration of respiratory and cardiovascular disease risk factors. The possibility that modifying food intake can be useful for reducing or eliminating pharmaceutical methods of treatment, which are often lifelong with significant side effects, calls for serious investigation. This review revisits the meaning of physiological ketosis in the light of this evidence and considers possible mechanisms for the therapeutic actions of the ketogenic diet on different diseases. The present review also questions whether there are still some preconceived ideas about ketogenic diets, which may be presenting unnecessary barriers to their use as therapeutic tools in the physician's hand.
Besides a positive effect on weight loss, studies have shown that low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets also reduce serum triglycerides dramatically. Elevated serum triglycerides are common among Asian Indians, and this is one of the features of the so-called Asian Indian Phenotype9. Reduction in total cholesterol and increase in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol have also been reported. A key enzyme in cholesterol biosynthesis is 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-CoA reductase, which is activated by insulin. This means that an increase in blood glucose and consequently of insulin levels will lead to increased endogenous cholesterol synthesis. A reduction in dietary carbohydrate will thus have the opposite effect and this, coupled with the additional inhibition by dietary cholesterol and fats on endogenous synthesis, is likely to be the mechanism by which physiological ketosis can improve lipid profiles4.
Thus, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets have been shown to have immense benefits in blood sugar control. There are some reported beneficial effects on cancer and neurological disorders such as Alzheimer's disease and epilepsy10 although these are not discussed further here as it is beyond the purview of this article.
However, there are also several adverse effects of ketogenic diets. These include muscle cramps, bad breath, changes in bowel habits, keto-flu and loss of energy11. Hence, monitoring individuals on keto-diet closely once or twice a month for blood glucose, ketones cardiac and other parameters is essential.
Yeah. Try again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #-3
My last claim was that you could not find a well controlled study that would show a substantial enough benefit to offset the risks of a diet like this.
Well, let's go off of one of the sources from your second link, shall we?
The benefits are weight loss, improved outcomes for / prevention of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, PCOS, Alzheimer's, acne, cancer, ALS, and improved HDL levels.
The risks are muscle cramps (supplement with potassium), bad breath (Gum? A mint? A quick gargle with mouth wash?), changes in bowel habits (never trust a keto fart), keto-flu (goes away in two or three weeks, sooner if you've fat adapted before), loss of energy (debatable and depends heavily on the individual).
Let's just go off of the main reason people follow ketogenic diets; they're obese or overweight, and need to lose weight to improve health outcomes. Click here and scroll down to "Complications". You tell me if higher risk of heart disease and strokes, high blood pressure and abnormal cholesterol levels, type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, cancer of the uterus, cervix, endometrium, ovary, breast, colon, rectum, esophagus, liver, gallbladder, pancreas, kidney and prostate, heartburn, gallbladder disease and liver problems, infertility and irregular periods in women, erectile dysfunction in men, sleep apnea, osteoarthritis, lower quality of life (depression, disability, sexual problems, shame and guilt, social isolation, lower work achievement)... is it worth it yet?
... nah, better not, might get muscle cramps.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
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The benefits are weight loss, improved outcomes for / prevention of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, PCOS, Alzheimer's, acne, cancer, ALS, and improved HDL levels.
The risks are muscle cramps (supplement with potassium), bad breath (Gum? A mint? A quick gargle with mouth wash?), changes in bowel habits (never trust a keto fart), keto-flu (goes away in two or three weeks, sooner if you've fat adapted before), loss of energy (debatable and depends heavily on the individual).
Let's just go off of the main reason people follow ketogenic diets; they're obese or overweight, and need to lose weight to improve health outcomes. Click here and scroll down to "Complications". You tell me if higher risk of heart disease and strokes, high blood pressure and abnormal cholesterol levels, type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, cancer of the uterus, cervix, endometrium, ovary, breast, colon, rectum, esophagus, liver, gallbladder, pancreas, kidney and prostate, heartburn, gallbladder disease and liver problems, infertility and irregular periods in women, erectile dysfunction in men, sleep apnea, osteoarthritis, lower quality of life (depression, disability, sexual problems, shame and guilt, social isolation, lower work achievement)... is it worth it yet?
... nah, better not, might get muscle cramps.
You know that all of those benefits are the same with a healthy, carb-filled diet, right?
At the end of the day there is no evidence that a ketogenic diet has benefits over regular healthy eating that includes carbohydrates. The one thing it does have is poorer long term compliance. Most people don't have problems losing weight, but 99% of those who lose it will regain it all back.
All that being said, good for everyone in here trying to make themselves healthier.
I just hate fads. And people always talking about keto when I don't ask. Yes I realize I walked into a keto thread.
An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
