Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[TheOnlyBilko]

Originally Posted by devo22

speak for yourself. I'd have prefered both over Lucic, no doubt about it.

You would prefer Loui Eriksson? 😂😂😂

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What was Chiarelli thinking when he made that deal? I think the Canucks were the other team interested in Lucic at the time but considering the player lost a step already at that time he should have been thinking about making the contract up so the last few years were somewhat buyout friendly.

It epitomizes the crippling insecurity that festers in the frozen tundra of the north.

Edmonton believes the only way players will come there is if they offer market resetting contracts. They don't understand that a) most free agents are dog#### and b) when you conduct yourself as a professional organization that doesn't do stupid and embarrassing #### on the regular, you don't have to hand out market resetting contracts to keep players.

It's not the city. Winnipeg has kept Wheeler, Buff, Schiefele, and Hellebuyck. They didn't blow their brains out to get it done. They may have had to pay a premium, but the Cold City premium is a lot smaller than the 'we're run by an embarrassing pit of vipers from which free agency is the only escape' premium.

[zamler]

[devo22]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

You would prefer Loui Eriksson? 😂😂😂

over Lucic? Yes. The man is done.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

this was the cost of going to the Oilers.

It's why I hate these interdivisional trades. The Baertschi trade worked out well for the Flames because Andersson is a better player already but that's about the only deal between the Flames and Canucks or Oilers where the Flames actually came out ahead. The other ones weren't disasters but I would say trades like today, taking Smid's contract off their hands, Granlund for AHL player, etc all helped the Flames rivals more than it did the Flames.

[Igottago]

Even though Neal was terrible for the Flames I don't think this trade was well thought out. Obviously we have to see what happens on ice but I think the Oilers got the better half of a pretty crappy deal. Very curious to hear Treliving on this, this is one of the most head scratching deals I can remember in his tenure so far.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Right. But a buyout in Neal’s final year doesn’t cost $15mil and it gives you significant cap space when Johnny Gaudreau goes UFA.

Lucic will be in LTIR long before then ! Maybe as soon as one year! Right . Right ....

[Jetfire]

I've never wanted James Neal on this team so badly.

[Heavy Jack]

Holding out hope for the Lucic (10% retained) + Puljujarvi for Neal +Stone announcement later on lol

[TOfan]

Quite a bit of whining for a trade involving one plug for another.

Neal had to go, as did Lucic. Flames save money & the Oilers add. Think Oiler fans are going to like paying 6.35 million, essentially, for James Neal? Right. Neal's not bouncing back. James Neal is not about to rewind the clock to 2007. He's every bit of an anchor as Lucic. He fell off the cliff, head first, last year. At least Lucic adds an element of intimidation to the line up, which this group needs and management has been trying to add for some time now.

Also, this means the Flames have Gaudreau, Tkachuck, Bennett, Mangipanne, Lucic, Dube all as LW shots playing the wing. Treliving' not done. Bit*hes....,chill.

I'm reserving judgement until we know what the conditions are on the pick coming back and what this means to the lineup moving forward.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by CN10

It is a doofus for doofus trade, but I think the doofus we just sent them fits a team need for one of the leagues top offensive players in McDavid so I am worried that Neal recovers his 20G+ form as he can probably finish the plays he's set up for even better than Chiasson who went from around 10G to over 20G. Even if he plays 2nd line with RNH I think we can both agree that he will likely score more than he did with Jankowski and Bennett, while Lucic is unlikely to get anywhere close to reasonable production for a $5.4M cap hit.

Neal is far too slow to keep up with McDavid. It was the same problem Lucic had with McDavid.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's why I hate these interdivisional trades. The Baertschi trade worked out well for the Flames because Andersson is a better player already but that's about the only deal between the Flames and Canucks or Oilers where the Flames actually came out ahead. The other ones weren't disasters but I would say trades like today, taking Smid's contract off their hands, Granlund for AHL player, etc all helped the Flames rivals more than it did the Flames.

to be fair, the Smid trade would have been great if not for the injuries. When healthy he was really solid for us.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Trading them Neal will improved them? Honest question, how?


It's a garbage for trash, poo for dung trade.

Neal was a consistent 20+ goal scorer before last season. I think its safe to say he'll have a bounce back score more than 7 goals next season with Mcdavid feeding him.

the biggest loser in this trade is Chiasson bumped out of the top line. lol

Draisaitl - McDavid - Neal

[Jetfire]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

You would prefer Loui Eriksson? 😂😂😂

I certainly would.

Neal = declining
Eriksson = declining
Lucic = done multiple years ago with little/no hope of a turnaround

[shadowlord]

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

You would prefer Loui Eriksson? 😂😂😂

Ericksson would have been a good fit with the Oilers because he's a guy that can put loose pucks in the net and could at least keep up to McDavid. He would have bounce back likely in Edmonton with an increased role (virtually received little tip 6 ice time under Green while at least Neal and Lucic did at times last season). He would be redundant on the Flames as he's not physical and is a competent 3rd line player to which they already have in abundance.

[Sandman]

I'll say it again-Looch ain't fast, but he's not as bad a skater as people on here are saying he is. He would kill Neal in a foot race. Lucic has better advanced stats than Neal too.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I only skimmed a few pages in this thread, but it seems like I am the only one that likes this deal.


Why?


Lucic was trash in Edmonton. He is going to likely be trash on the Flames as well. However, if you want to look at both players turning around, maybe they will both be better fits for their new teams now.


Ok, ok... realistically now... what did each player do on their respective teams?


Neal didn't do squat here. Nada. He didn't forecheck well. Backcheck? Non-existent. What about his sniper shot? People like to point to his low shooting percentage and claim that it is bound to turn around and that it was all bad luck. I didn't see anything remotely resembling a good shot at all. I thought he was slow and detracted from the team speed. I also saw him being a negative on every line he was on. He did, however, provide some leadership to some of the young players. What really bugged me about Neal was what happened in the playoffs - he was terrible, and when Peters decided to limit his ice-time, he complained about it as if Peters was wrong to do it. Finally he became a healthy scratch. Honestly, I think that benching Neal and making him the 13th forward was going to be inevitable, and it was the best way to help this team win. He doesn't do anything well, and once again, he seems to drag down whatever linemates he has on with him.


What about Lucic? I expect him to post similar numbers to what he did last season - which was basically what Neal was posting. That's not great - at all. Don't get me wrong, I am not looking for Lucic to come in and suddenly become the Lucic of Boston, and worthy of his contract. That contract is still going to be a hindrance to this team - a total anchor that absolutely sucks. With that being said, at least he will actually fill a bit of a need - toughness. Not just his fighting ability, but his hits, his sticking up for teammates, and also him jamming the net and making life miserable for the opposing goaltender. I really don't see a drop-off from Neal's play here - they BOTH suck at playing hockey, and fairly equally, especially given Neal's undeserved PP time and his undeserved skates on the top line.



The way I see it, you are still going to get the same Neal from last season on this team, minus his probable distraction of "Why aren't you playing me more coach??", adding some sorely lacking muscle on the team, and at a slightly cheaper contract.



I wouldn't be surprised if Lucic out-scores Neal (again). If he does, it will be negligible anyway. This is a wash to me from an on-ice performance perspective when it comes to generating offence or helping out defensively. It is a huge win simply by finding an actual use for that detrimental cap hit. Neal was absolutely and completely useless. Correction - Neal was hurting this team by how every linemate seemingly did worse with him.



Hopefully Treliving finally learned a big lesson here - stop giving out big money deals with term on players that are above 30, especially if they are showing signs of regressing.


The ONLY issue I have with this trade is if it is going to affect the expansion draft. I am hopeful an agreement has been reached in which Lucic has already agreed to lift it for the draft and that the Flames don't need to use a protection slot on him. That's the danger of this trade to me, and I am eagerly awaiting some confirmation that it is indeed lifted ahead of time.


I think this trade will bother those that think Neal was poised for a bounce-back. I didn't see it, as I didn't view conditioning as an issue with this game as much as a general lack of skills. When you can't make a pass, and you can't really shoot, and you have about ZERO IQ defensively, then 'working hard' in the off-season isn't going to turn you into some good player.



With this trade, I assume that there will be no dilemmas for Peters as to where he fits into the lineup. He replaces Hathaway. That's it. Sucks that it is a huge cap hit, but at least he will be useful. Extremely overpaid, but at least useful, if not at times actually necessary.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's why I hate these interdivisional trades. The Baertschi trade worked out well for the Flames because Andersson is a better player already but that's about the only deal between the Flames and Canucks or Oilers where the Flames actually came out ahead. The other ones weren't disasters but I would say trades like today, taking Smid's contract off their hands, Granlund for AHL player, etc all helped the Flames rivals more than it did the Flames.

But what does it matter if a trade helps our rivals, really? I get the idea that if they get better, things get more difficult for us, but do they really?

How did Edmonton benefit from getting out from the Smid contract?
How did Granlund move the needle for the Canucks?

Yeah, sometimes it makes a rival better. But when your rival is dogshirt, it's not a big deal. Are the Oilers just the difference between Neal and Lucic away from being a contenda? Lol... no.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by keenan87

You do know there are other factors to this right? Neal wasnt going to get 20 goals on the third line.. for 20 goals, he needed to be on the first line. Were you willing to risk a massive drop from Lindholm by placing Neal on the top line?

For example, Neal may have increased his totals by 20 points on the top line while Lindholm could have dropped by 30 points not playing on the third line. Is that worth it?

I have seen this a few times. The great thing is if Neal is getting 20 on the top line in Edmonton that means someone else is *not* getting 30-40 there. It's not top-line winger production, and it may make Neal look better but it's not improving Edmonton much if at all.