10-30-2022, 09:54 PM
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#281
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Franchise Player
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Sorry, I can't read your post. I've gone blind from looking at the sun.
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10-30-2022, 10:53 PM
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#282
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
The majority of this is entire bunkum. It is most assuredly not good stuff.
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"Majority" and "entire" are strong all-inclusive words. On what basis did you form this opinion? Have you tried the "majority" or the "entire" list yourself?
Having had a family member go through insomnia issues they've had medical professionals and alternative health offer very close to the same advice as this list. Close, but not identical, and obviously a few differences but surprisingly similar.
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10-30-2022, 11:03 PM
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#283
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc
Please don’t tape your mouth shut. It’s potentially dangerous: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/26/h...ess/index.html
I’d recommend considering an anti-anxiety/anti-depressant like Trazodone. It is a longer term solution than zopiclone or Benadryl. If you don’t already, maybe try some white noise which can help block out noises that could keep you from falling asleep.
As a fellow insomniac, I very much sympathize with you and hope you find a solution.
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I'll preface this with saying that this is only sharing my personal experience. But it is good to get some knowledge on the various medication options. They all have different advantages and disadvantages. But asking about some of the alternatives can sometimes be important.
In terms of sleep drugs, Zoplicone maybe the most commonly prescribed medication now. For me, it was effective in getting me some sleep, but I wouldn't feel myself the next day. I would get a headache and feel a little groggy. not quite myself. My understanding is that it has a longer half-life in your body so it helps with people who struggle to stay asleep.
My issues are sleep onset, and several years ago, my sleep doctor recommended changing from zoplicone to Zolpidem. It worked far better for me and didn't leave me feeling nearly as awful the next day, because I think it gets out of your system faster. I don't take it often, only when I need to, but even then half a pill will do the trick for me.
Don't be afraid to ask your doctor about the alternatives and ask them to outline the advantages and disadvantages of each. The sleep clinic will know all this the best. Your family doctor will not. They will prescribe Zoplicone because it's the most common one, but it may not be right for you.
Good luck. Sleep deprivation is hell.
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10-30-2022, 11:47 PM
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#284
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichieRich
"Majority" and "entire" are strong all-inclusive words. On what basis did you form this opinion? Have you tried the "majority" or the "entire" list yourself?
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Well, we could start with Other where a person has seriously recommended another person obstruct their respiratory system during sleep by:
tap[ing] your mouth shut while you sleep (if you don’t have severe sleep apnoea (sp. apnea; but also seemingly only if you have severe sleep apnoea))
- You can train more airflow through your nose by doing cardiovascular exercise with your mouth closed. Again, tape up your mouth if needed.
No. No, don't do that.
Quote:
Having had a family member go through insomnia issues they've had medical professionals and alternative health offer very close to the same advice as this list. Close, but not identical, and obviously a few differences but surprisingly similar.
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I suspect the "majority" of professionals were "alternative".
I'm not trying to be a dick and take away from anything that gets a person a better sleep, but this list is, at best pseudo-science, and, at worst highly dangerous.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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10-31-2022, 12:05 AM
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#285
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
The majority of this is entire bunkum. It is most assuredly not good stuff.
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You do know the guy that came up with the principles that this list is based upon is a neuroscience professor at Stanford? Andrew Huberman. I’m not saying it’s all correct - I don’t know - but if you’re going to call it “entire bunkum” then I’d like to know your qualifications for that
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10-31-2022, 12:27 AM
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#286
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Richmond upon Thames, London
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sleep doctors are a thing?
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10-31-2022, 12:29 AM
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#287
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent
sleep doctors are a thing?
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Of course they are
Why wouldn’t they be?
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10-31-2022, 12:52 AM
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#288
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soreshins
You do know the guy that came up with the principles that this list is based upon is a neuroscience professor at Stanford? Andrew Huberman. I’m not saying it’s all correct - I don’t know - but if you’re going to call it “entire bunkum” then I’d like to know your qualifications for that
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I am. And all I can offer is common sense.
Light at the right time is good, dark at the right time is good. Caffeine, alcohol, THC, is good or bad dependent, but generally not good.
Exercise during the day is good for sleep, but subjective to when. Bathing is entirely subjective to sleep. Temperature is entirely subjective to sleep.
Sleep/awake is not a sum, there is no cumulative amount to "make up for".
While there are certain factors that we need to understand further (blue light intrigues me), the rest of it is mostly arbitrary suggestions based on common knowledge.
Outside of the whole forcibly don't breathe from this particular hole thing. I think that's probably my major hang up.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
Last edited by Yamer; 10-31-2022 at 12:55 AM.
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10-31-2022, 12:08 PM
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#289
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
I am. And all I can offer is common sense.
Light at the right time is good, dark at the right time is good. Caffeine, alcohol, THC, is good or bad dependent, but generally not good.
Exercise during the day is good for sleep, but subjective to when. Bathing is entirely subjective to sleep. Temperature is entirely subjective to sleep.
Sleep/awake is not a sum, there is no cumulative amount to "make up for".
While there are certain factors that we need to understand further (blue light intrigues me), the rest of it is mostly arbitrary suggestions based on common knowledge.
Outside of the whole forcibly don't breathe from this particular hole thing. I think that's probably my major hang up.
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So you think your common sense is more valid than a professor of neuroscience pasing on scientifically-researched information in his podcasts?
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10-31-2022, 12:22 PM
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#290
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Franchise Player
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I've only gone through a few really serious period of insomnia in my life and they were all OCD/medication related. Nothing "common-sensical" that I did alleviated the agony. Only proper treatment and changes to medication helped.
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10-31-2022, 12:34 PM
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#291
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A small painted room
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D as in David
So you think your common sense is more valid than a professor of neuroscience pasing on scientifically-researched information in his podcasts?
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Could you please delete your recommendation to tape your mouth? This isn't a great idea to write on a message board
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11-01-2022, 09:25 PM
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#292
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D as in David
So you think your common sense is more valid than a professor of neuroscience pasing on scientifically-researched information in his podcasts?
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Guy said to tape your mouth shut while sleeping.
Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable with my common sense.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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11-01-2022, 10:00 PM
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#293
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
I've only gone through a few really serious period of insomnia in my life and they were all OCD/medication related. Nothing "common-sensical" that I did alleviated the agony. Only proper treatment and changes to medication helped.
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Requiring medical intervention to a chronic disorder is independent from common knowledge solutions, such as having an awake/sleep routine and abstaining from particular vices at particular times.
Instructing people who suffer with sleep to regiment theirselves according to specific time frames for everything they do, like eating, sleeping, and bathing will ultimately only reinforce those obsessive disorders.
General knowledge of sleep is sufficient for the majority of people. Maintain a common cycle, don't drink, don't smoke, regulate naps, avoid stimulations, get exercise, eliminate stress, etc.
When you're in crisis it's nonsensical to ask a person that is likely already overthinking to overcomplicate them with yet another rigid schedule, and when they aren't adhering to that schedule they are failing...and if I fail I can't sleep, and I can't sleep if I continue to fail...and ongoing into catastrophizing.
Advising people to tape their ####ing mouth shut should have been the only flag you need to see to tell you maybe this guy doesn't know entirely what they're talking about, and maybe are just regurgitating surface-test myths despite a doctorate. Figuring out the rest is common-sensical.
__________________
"It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm."
-Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
Last edited by Yamer; 11-01-2022 at 10:03 PM.
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03-31-2023, 12:15 AM
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#294
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Been fighting insomnia for a few weeks and honestly I’m so exhausted from it. Tried melatonin for 10 days and didn’t do anything so recently talked to my doctor about some short term solutions. Was prescribed a sleeping pill and it had zero effect so then tried another one from the doctor and same thing. Two different sleeping pills (not used together) and I’m wide awake. Took them for almost a week so it wasn’t a day or two of not working. Should I be concerned (apart from the obvious of not being able to sleep).
I try to practice good sleep hygiene and still nothing. Not sure how much longer I can function like this. Starting to feel physically and emotionally ill.
Last edited by Ferarri; 03-31-2023 at 12:17 AM.
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03-31-2023, 12:27 AM
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#295
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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My new problem has been waking up at 2 or 3 am for no reason. Always struggled with falling asleep and would also like a log once asleep. Now I'm having the opposite problem, where I fall asleep too easy but wake up for no reason.
I have had some success with melatonin though. I find it only works if I get the exact right dose. Too much and it triggers anxiety. For me the dose is about 1.5mg... But the pills generally come in 5 or 10mg. So I just take a small portion. They also lose their effectiveness if taken too often.
I've had some really bad runs of sleep lately though. Going a week in a row with 3-5 hours. It's been brutal.
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03-31-2023, 12:32 AM
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#296
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Lifetime Suspension
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If you have severe insomnia melatonin does nothing. I'm surprised anyone can take zolpidem (if that's what we're talking about here) and still stay awake.
For me quetiapine has been very effective it helped me get out of the viscous cycle of barely sleeping. You are dead tired and feel awful so you can't sleep properly it's a horrible spriral.
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03-31-2023, 08:14 AM
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#297
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferarri
Been fighting insomnia for a few weeks and honestly I’m so exhausted from it. Tried melatonin for 10 days and didn’t do anything so recently talked to my doctor about some short term solutions. Was prescribed a sleeping pill and it had zero effect so then tried another one from the doctor and same thing. Two different sleeping pills (not used together) and I’m wide awake. Took them for almost a week so it wasn’t a day or two of not working. Should I be concerned (apart from the obvious of not being able to sleep).
I try to practice good sleep hygiene and still nothing. Not sure how much longer I can function like this. Starting to feel physically and emotionally ill.
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Sorry to hear you are going through this.
A few questions
- Is problem sleep onset or waking up and not being able to get back asleep?
- What medications have you tried?
- With melatonin make sure you are using correctly. Take it about an hour before bed and then make sure you turn off all the lights. If you watch TV to relax than get a pair of glasses that cut blue light out. Otherwise you are sending your brain a confusing message about if it's time to rest or not. Do not take melatonin and then be on your phone scrolling
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03-31-2023, 08:15 AM
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#298
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
If you have severe insomnia melatonin does nothing. I'm surprised anyone can take zolpidem (if that's what we're talking about here) and still stay awake.
For me quetiapine has been very effective it helped me get out of the viscous cycle of barely sleeping. You are dead tired and feel awful so you can't sleep properly it's a horrible spriral.
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Zolpidem is the one I take, it works better for me with less side effects than the more often prescribed Zoplicone.
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03-31-2023, 08:19 AM
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#299
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary
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Taking melatonin gives me crazy f'd up dreaming. Really over the top stuff that leaves my scratching my head for the next day. I stopped taking it. Last year I was having crazy insomnia. Most of it was brought on through stress I think. (parent getting sick and passing away).
It could be a coincidence but dropping 18 pounds has really transformed my sleep. I haven't had any sleep issues since then.
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03-31-2023, 10:24 AM
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#300
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Sorry to hear you are going through this.
A few questions
- Is problem sleep onset or waking up and not being able to get back asleep?
- What medications have you tried?
- With melatonin make sure you are using correctly. Take it about an hour before bed and then make sure you turn off all the lights. If you watch TV to relax than get a pair of glasses that cut blue light out. Otherwise you are sending your brain a confusing message about if it's time to rest or not. Do not take melatonin and then be on your phone scrolling
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Thanks, insomnia is the absolute worst.
I've tried Zopiclone and lemorexant and both have had virtually zero success. I've heard that Melatonin strips could be effective so I will attempt to try those. I'm usually pretty good at taking it about an hour to hour and a half before bed.
I haven't tried the glasses for blue light so that's something to add to the list. I've been better about no screen time before bed but practicing better sleep hygiene could be improved on my end.
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