You would think being able to potentially help someone who is struggling by wearing a piece of clothing would be enough to wear said piece of clothing. Ridiculous.
I don't really see this as a political matter, though. It's specifically tied to hockey and the NHL, and the message is that it's a game for everybody. This, to me, is different than things like taking a knee etc., where there's very clearly a bigger picture than just hockey.
and as for his opinion? He can have his opinion, but then people can also have the opinion that his opinion sucks. And to me, it does - including his explanation. The bible also states you can't work on the Sabbath, yet James Reimer has had no problems taking the ice on Sundays during his career.
He gets paid to work on the Sabbath, in that case you do not have to keep it holy.
Still a free country. They can do what they want. As far as I know anyway.
Sure, but it is still a free country to call him an intolerant idiot. And quite frankly if his wife is not offering up two turtledoves to the priest on the 8th day after her period ends for sacrifice (Leviticus 15:29,30) he is a complete hypocrite.
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I'm conflicted and fall in a weird spot, maybe this is intolerance but it's my beliefs. If I was an NHL player and pride night was coming I would absolutely be wearing a pride jersey. That community has (and still is) been marginalized and denigrated. My choice would be to wear it because I want to.
While I don't agree with Reimer and his statement, I think he has a right to not wear something he doesn't believe in. Not everyone is this world is your friend or ally and you dont need everyone to agree with you. There's ***holes everywhere.
I'd rather give the choice to the players. You wanna wear a pride jersey and look awesome in it while a couple dinks opt out? Awesome, go for it. Don't shelter those who have negative views towards the LGBTQ community, but give everyone the choice to support/not support whatever cause they wish.
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Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
I understood the Russian families could be in danger argument. Not sure the my bigoted social circle will lose respect for me argument holds up as well.
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The masses of humanity have always had to surf.
This is literally what we're doing right now. Many here are saying, after critically thinking about the issue, that Reimer's opinion sucks, is outdated, and lacks logic or critical thinking.
If we hope to do better, we should expect everyone to carefully think about any position they have before conducting themselves publicly in this way.
Yup. The people that think 'free speech is under attack' don't really believe this. They just think their asinine ideas are under attack and whine and cry when they get pushback on said nonsense.
I'm conflicted and fall in a weird spot, maybe this is intolerance but it's my beliefs. If I was an NHL player and pride night was coming I would absolutely be wearing a pride jersey. That community has (and still is) been marginalized and denigrated. My choice would be to wear it because I want to.
While I don't agree with Reimer and his statement, I think he has a right to not wear something he doesn't believe in. Not everyone is this world is your friend or ally and you dont need everyone to agree with you. There's ***holes everywhere.
I'd rather give the choice to the players. You wanna wear a pride jersey and look awesome in it while a couple dinks opt out? Awesome, go for it. Don't shelter those who have negative views towards the LGBTQ community, but give everyone the choice to support/not support whatever cause they wish.
I don't believe that is intolerant at all. James Reimer, Ivan Provorov, and any other player or person throughout the league should be free to have the choice to express themselves, including non-participation in events, ideas, and themes that they may disagree with...
...as long as I still have the freedom to point out how utterly stupid it is to hold that belief.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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Being free to be a bigot doesn't mean freedom from consequences of being a bigot. Hiding behind faith is cowardly and I think on some level shows they know it's wrong but can't own it themselves.
People can evolve to be better and I will always hope they do but bigotry should be called out without exception always.
I don't believe that is intolerant at all. James Reimer, Ivan Provorov, and any other player or person throughout the league should be free to have the choice to express themselves, including non-participation in events, ideas, and themes that they may disagree with...
...as long as I still have the freedom to point out how utterly stupid it is to hold that belief.
Absolutely, and I agree it's completely stupid they believe in it. However I wonder if the social consequences of being stupid and taking ignorant views is causing some people to dig in deeper.
Not wearing a pride jersey? OK that's ####ty but not a terrible transgression, especially if other players are allowed to wear the rainbow.
I feel like if someone opted out of wearing a pride jersey, my response would be that he's a jerk and I don't care for him. However the social cost would be significantly higher than what I believe is correct. I don't believe the consequences are always comparable to the severity of action.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
Absolutely, and I agree it's completely stupid they believe in it. However I wonder if the social consequences of being stupid and taking ignorant views is causing some people to dig in deeper.
Not wearing a pride jersey? OK that's ####ty but not a terrible transgression, especially if other players are allowed to wear the rainbow.
I feel like if someone opted out of wearing a pride jersey, my response would be that he's a jerk and I don't care for him. However the social cost would be significantly higher than what I believe is correct. I don't believe the consequences are always comparable to the severity of action.
And even if that’s true, I say #### em. Wearing a pride jersey for 15 minutes during warmups is such a minor and inconsequential inconvenience, even if some bigot has such strong beliefs, just stfu and wear it.
It’s actually kind of pathetic that anyone would try and make such a big deal out of this. It shows what a loser Reimer is. Just wear the jersey you whiny jerk.
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And even if that’s true, I say #### em. Wearing a pride jersey for 15 minutes during warmups is such a minor and inconsequential inconvenience, even if some bigot has such strong beliefs, just stfu and wear it.
It’s actually kind of pathetic that anyone would try and make such a big deal out of this. It shows what a loser Reimer is. Just wear the jersey you whiny jerk.
Agreed there, wearing a piece of fabric with rainbow colors is harmless to those who disagree, meanwhile it has a positive impact in the gay community. That's why I would wear one, to make people in the LGBTQ community feel like they have a place in hockey. But I do feel like those who (stupidly) disagree are overly chastised in some instances. I don't know everything of what was said to Reimer, but if I had to venture a guess, his dinkish decision has had a very significant blowback.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
Personally I don’t care about any of these symbolic nights at all. I think some actions speak louder than words. To me it’s all corporate marketing. What I’d be more interested in any of these things is for any of these marginalized groups how many people are closely associated with the team (ie: how many lgbt, or black team support or coaches does the league have?). What about players? Then the question is why doesn’t align with thr general population? Is it discrimination or something more naturally explained? Are there opportunities for these guys to be involved with the sport? All this stuff about jerseys is classic marketing and self patting on the back. What goes on behind the scenes is so much more telling.
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Personally I don’t care about any of these symbolic nights at all. I think some actions speak louder than words. To me it’s all corporate marketing. What I’d be more interested in any of these things is for any of these marginalized groups how many people are closely associated with the team (ie: how many lgbt, or black team support or coaches does the league have?). What about players? Then the question is why doesn’t align with thr general population? Is it discrimination or something more naturally explained? Are there opportunities for these guys to be involved with the sport? All this stuff about jerseys is classic marketing and self patting on the back. What goes on behind the scenes is so much more telling.
You say actions speak louder than words. Would one of those actions be participating in inclusionary events?
You say actions speak louder than words. Would one of those actions be participating in inclusionary events?
There are different views on these things. Some may not want to be associated with dog and pony shows (which IMO, much of this is). If the NHL really wants to be practical, they should just release their own internal anonymous numbers on these things, and talk about their steps to getting the numbers in line with the population where they can. All these inclusion events, meh, doesn't move the dial except for the corporate people above to pat themselves on the back and say, "job well done everyone, we did our part". Meanwhile joe schmoe eats this nonsense up. It's everywhere.
LGBTQ folks are at huge risk in a lot of the United States right now. Politicians have targeted them to build their fascist (conservative?) bona fides. The fact that Reimer doesn’t support them shows a lot about who he is. On the other hand…
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