Inclusivity and the NHL: We Have a Problem

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

"I have a gay son, no way could I be homophobic"

Is that how this works? Are people still thinking that's an argument?

It's the new I'm not a racist but...

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I'm gonna ask something, not to incite anger but because I honestly don't know. Is opposition the best answer here? Would a gentler approach of education and using historical examples of prejudice towards the gay community not be more proactive?

I believe that when you take the stance of challenging and opposing their ignorant beliefs, you reinforce their dumb positions about the gay community. I think this opposition is what leads to other dumb stances like "but the Muslims!!" or "where's the Christian pride night??".

My 2 cents

Personally I don't think re-hashing the "religion is bad, mmkay" does much good, and I'm not typically of the disposition to call folks like Reimer or Provorov names or dehumanize them. I do strongly disagree with their positions, however, and I get the compulsion to stand in that kind of direct opposition to what I consider a notably harmful one. Keep in mind that even going off of Reimer's statements he is affixed in the outdated and disproven notion that queerness is some kind of conscious choice a person makes at some unfortunate junction of their life.

I'm not convinced an educational approach would do much good on someone like Reimer who is deeply ensconced in his faith. That said, I definitely think there is value in remembering things like Stonewall and people like Matthew Shepard, and generally education and expanding your worldview helps to embrace and understand concepts of tolerance and, hopefully, pure love and acceptance.

I can't pretend that outrage culture doesn't exist and that it likely gives a bigoted person another excuse to sink further into their hate. My major issue is when we have members swing in with priority to remind us that people like Reimer are the real victims here and it's all because we are intolerant of his backwards thinking. It's an exhausting performance.

It's still OK to stand up to the statement Reimer made and say "that's not OK". Don't let the idea that he used the word "love" and some double-speak misdirect that what he did and said is a strong condemnation of actual human beings that likely have a much better understanding of what love actually means.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Did you show your child with development issues the thread where you spent the whole time defending someone who tortured a child with a disability?

I never defended his actions. Show me one post where I say what Miller did was OK. Just one.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You even went as far to point out that the mother of that victim was also a bully, but having a trans kid makes it impossible for you to be homophobic?

I didn't say it was impossible. Again, you can't help yourself misrepresenting others. What I did say is my trans son would be surprised to find out such a thing. But my son knows me as someone who truly believes in liberty for all and that includes anyone identifying themselves as LGBT+. You'd think someone with "free" in their name would understand. But you also have toxic sugar water in your name, so here we are.

Nor it is it impossible for a mother of a bullied child to herself be a bully. The world is wrought with irony.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What am I trying to accomplish? I told you, I’m pointing out the hypocrisy between the positions you hold and the values you claim to represent. You spend more time on this board defending racists, bullies, bigots, and mocking/dismissing anyone that cares about any social issues as part of some “mob” or whatever.

You'd actually have to understand my views first. Instead you jump to the least charitable conclusion possible and then extrapolate from there. But even your mischaracterization is consistent, so your claim of hypocrisy doesn't even hold water in your own delusion.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you care about trans kids, or people with disabilities, or anyone at all, you don’t show it. And every time you get called out you play this pathetic “cast down from high” self righteous bull#### about how forgiving and imperfect you are. But you’ve never once shown any kindness or love to anyone that even remotely identifies in the same way your apparent children do.

That is hilarious coming from you, of all people. I offer others far more respect and understanding than you ever have around here.

In this very thread I am arguing that Reimer is undeserving of the vitriol directed at him and pointing out that calling Christians bigoted homophobes doesn't help the cause. But I don't show anyone any kindness. Right.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you don’t like the label, stop living it.

Any labels coming from you are meaningless. You're just a sad creature on the internet. For this, you are forgiven.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The anxiety thread, Briere thread and this one are together weeding out the posters who just don't get it.

Hopefully it can serve as a wake up call for them or at least give them something to ponder about next time they're about to say something ridiculous.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by cannon7

While I generally agree with you, a person's faith can be core to their being. Some CPers might think that is stupid and worthy of ridicule and disrespect, or worse, to scrutinize their faith as a facade for bigotry. But I don't see anything in Reimer's actions or words to justify this vitriol. If anything, he has made it clear that he is not trying to offend anyone. It is the media blowing this out of proportion, IMO.

And to be clear, I am not a person of faith. I just recognize its importance to others.

If Reimer was a Muslim does this make the news? Or do we reserve the accusations of bigotry and homophobia for Christians?

But it is not religious, the fact that he participated in military appreciation events (which his religion is much clearer on) shows it has nothing to do with religion.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I mean, the underlying current of him not respecting or supporting the activity or lifestyle is just a veiled way of saying that it's a behavior or "it's a choice", and not a fundamental fact of their personhood. How are we not past this idea?

Hey James, I want to love everyone, but I cannot respect or support your activity or lifestyle as a intolerant, dogmatic, religious zealot and bigot.

Now, can I go out and wear a jersey that says #### James Reimer? It's all fair then, yeah? Everyone's free to express themselves and support their personal convictions then, right?

But I won't do that because it would be socially inappropriate and deeply hurtful to James Reimer, and he would feel marginalized and outcast, and made to feel like he couldn't express himself freely.

Tolerance is a conscious choice not to be an ####### all the time and keep things to yourself. Nobody asked you to voice your opinions on LGBTQ lifestyle or how it conflicts with your faith. Keep it to yourself.

I can't believe I have to quote my own posts to shout down such incredibly stupid rhetoric, but here we are.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The answer is liar. Poster has also claimed to have a developmentally challenged child when defending that draft pick who tortured a developmentally challenged kid in high school. It's a common theme for them. Has basically been on the wrong side of history in every single thread about bigotry, racism etc on CP for years.

His trans/black/developmentally challenged child disagrees with this assessment.

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

It just got worse:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1637284859398983685

Seems like we all missed something from this article:

"The Flames have Pride Night slotted for March 28."

I am happy that the organization is going ahead with this, but I dread that a player or the organization is going to drop the ball here, and the dumb dumbs of CP are going to rush to their defense...

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It's the new I'm not a racist but...

Well let's be real. You were going to call me a racist bigoted homophobe anyway. And my trans son thinks hockey is "that racist sport dad likes."

What is the internet for but to sow divisiveness whenever possible?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

But it is not religious, the fact that he participated in military appreciation events (which his religion is much clearer on) shows it has nothing to do with religion.

Can't his personal religious beliefs be fluid just like his gender identity? I say yes. How about you?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Well let's be real. You were going to call me a racist bigoted homophobe anyway. And my trans son thinks hockey is "that racist sport dad likes."

What is the internet for but to sow divisiveness whenever possible?

Also what politicians are for.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I didn't say it was impossible. Again, you can't help yourself misrepresenting others. What I did say is my trans son would be surprised to find out such a thing. But my son knows me as someone who truly believes in liberty for all and that includes anyone identifying themselves as LGBT+.

Believes in liberty for all… except for those that criticize bullies or stand against outdated, harmful religious views. Then THOSE people get criticized and mocked, right?

Originally Posted by cannon7

You'd think someone with "free" in their name would understand. But you also have toxic sugar water in your name, so here we are.

As hard as you were trying to be some bargain basement intellectual with this read on the name, it’s actually just a movie reference and has nothing to do with freedom nor my love for sugar water (which is apparently indicative of… something? sorry, not following your genius here)

Originally Posted by cannon7

You'd actually have to understand my views first. Instead you jump to the least charitable conclusion possible and then extrapolate from there. But even your mischaracterization is consistent, so your claim of hypocrisy doesn't even hold water in your own delusion.

You make your views incredibly difficult to understand, which is why you agree and are mostly agreed with by actual homophobes and racists. You don’t even stop and question that like… at all? “Hmmm, why do I agree with this person who outwardly hates my alleged son… must be because we love FrEeDoMmmm!!!”

Originally Posted by cannon7

That is hilarious coming from you, of all people. I offer others far more respect and understanding than you ever have around here.

I am quite funny, but in this case, no, you don’t. You do offer bigots and bullies more respect than I do, so you got me there!

Originally Posted by cannon7

In this very thread I am arguing that Reimer is undeserving of the vitriol directed at him and pointing out that calling Christians bigoted homophobes doesn't help the cause. But I don't show anyone any kindness. Right.

Read it again, I thought you hated when views were misrepresented? You’ve never shown kindness to anyone when it comes to issues related to LGBTQ folks or those living with disabilities, two things you apparently have experience with. Your only contributions to threads semi-related to those things (when you contribute at all) is to defend bullies or those who believe there is some inherent wrongness about the way your children were born. Good stuff!

Originally Posted by cannon7

Any labels coming from you are meaningless. You're just a sad creature on the internet. For this, you are forgiven.

What makes you think I, nor anyone else, would care what you think about them or have enough respect for you to value your forgiveness? Save this stuff for inside your head, it’s embarrassing typed out.

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Also what politicians are for.

PP & Danielle Smith at the top of that list...

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I can't believe I have to quote my own posts to shout down such incredibly stupid rhetoric, but here we are.

You don't, that's weird.

[transplant99]

This thread simply does not belong on the main board....take it to the cess pool that the off-topic has become.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Can't his personal religious beliefs be fluid just like his gender identity? I say yes. How about you?

Well he said it was religious. I agree that personal beliefs can be fluid, but he should have just said he hates those in the LBGTQ2 community then. The fact that he can ignore a much more core religious belief (anti military) for his religion shows that it is not a religious issue. I agree with you, he is just a bigot.

But if religious is personal and there are over a hundred million versions of Christianity in North America it is not a religious belief then. Religion is a system of beliefs, system means more than one person.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

His trans/black/developmentally challenged child disagrees with this assessment.

It was never easy for cannon7, he was born a poor black child.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Howie_16

Seems like we all missed something from this article:

"The Flames have Pride Night slotted for March 28."

I am happy that the organization is going ahead with this, but I dread that a player or the organization is going to drop the ball here, and the dumb dumbs of CP are going to rush to their defense...

If there aren't literal molotov cocktails ready to go in the stands should the Muslim in question not comply then you're all fakers.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I can't believe I have to quote my own posts to shout down such incredibly stupid rhetoric, but here we are.

And yet somehow, to some people, Reimer is the victim here.

Just incredible

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Howie_16

PP & Danielle Smith at the top of that list...

Don’t forget the lefties. Trudeau and Notley. Can’t leave them out of the love in.