Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 03-16-2023, 07:49 PM   #21
chummer
Franchise Player
 
chummer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Otto View Post
Agreed.

But I don't think it's particularly difficult to kill a police officer if you really want to. The only thing that prevents it from being a "regular" occurrence is good training (at least in Canada), experience and that the majority of people don't subscribe to the ACAB sentiments (although that's changing and as someone pointed out, may contribute to the increased violence against police).

It's interesting that I've seen a lot of blue line images today and I think it really shows that despite what some people think of it or how it's been (mis)appropriated by other groups, it's a very important symbol of support for police.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Exactly what my son said, he's an RCMP officer just outside of Edmonton.

These poor guys never had a chance.
chummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 04:10 AM   #22
metallicat
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports View Post
We're becoming the US. Soon officers will have to answer domestic call with guns drawn. And of course, at some point, an officer will shoot first.
This is silly. It won’t happen. Do cops go to gun calls with guns drawn? Yes. Do they or will they go to standard domestics with no mention of weapons with their guns drawn? No.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
metallicat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 08:42 AM   #23
MoneyGuy
Franchise Player
 
MoneyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chummer View Post
Exactly what my son said, he's an RCMP officer just outside of Edmonton.

These poor guys never had a chance.
Through previous work I knew many officers near Edmonton. I could know your son.
MoneyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MoneyGuy For This Useful Post:
Old 03-17-2023, 09:10 AM   #24
DoubleF
Franchise Player
 
DoubleF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chedder View Post
It'll be interesting to hear what dispatch said and who called the police. You almost have to think there was a failure of some kind for officers to walk into an apparent ambush like this. News saying it was a 16 or 17 year old and his mother was another victim.

Why can't these people just off themselves before ruining so many lives first.
Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
DoubleF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 09:34 AM   #25
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF View Post
Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
I'm not following this logic. A 16 year old doesn't know what an ambush is? Killing his mom, realizing the cops are coming, and then firing on them when they're unprepared and responding to the call is an ambush. That's not exactly unrealistic at all. You don't have to assume he used his mom as bait at all, just that he fired on them before they were engaged in the situation.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
Old 03-17-2023, 09:50 AM   #26
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF View Post
Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
I don't know if I buy your logic on this, but I'm no expert.

But he shot his mom, he knew the cops were coming. It was an apartment and it sounds like a resident let the cops in and the both went to the same door of the apartment.

So they were doing a same door entry so a cross fire is unlikely, and could be more likely that the police were shot coming through the door. Just some off reports out there, it doesn't sound like the police got a shot off.

This whole thing is tragic and sad and a waste of life.

Lets hope that police in bad neighborhoods, which is how this neighborhood was described don't go with the American model of overwhelming kick down the door force on every suspicious call.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Old 03-17-2023, 11:03 AM   #27
chedder
#1 Goaltender
 
chedder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF View Post
Maybe I'm not as cynical, but it's a 16 or 17 year old. That's a kid. Using the term ambush makes no sense to me. A form of crossfire, perhaps when they attempted to intervene, but absolutely not ambush. To be an ambush, you'd have to almost assume he used his mom as bait.
A kid of that age can definitely understand and perform an ambush. There was no crossfire as it was said the officers weren't able to use their weapons.

Tragic situation. Only hope is that it provides some lessons so it is less likely to happen again.
chedder is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to chedder For This Useful Post:
Old 03-17-2023, 11:14 AM   #28
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
I don't know if I buy your logic on this, but I'm no expert.

But he shot his mom, he knew the cops were coming. It was an apartment and it sounds like a resident let the cops in and the both went to the same door of the apartment.

So they were doing a same door entry so a cross fire is unlikely, and could be more likely that the police were shot coming through the door. Just some off reports out there, it doesn't sound like the police got a shot off.

This whole thing is tragic and sad and a waste of life.

Lets hope that police in bad neighborhoods, which is how this neighborhood was described don't go with the American model of overwhelming kick down the door force on every suspicious call.
They are stating, for now anyways, that the officers did not have a chance to discharge their own weapons. Also, stating that the officers never went in the apartment:

Quote:
As they approached the apartment, Chief McFee said they were shot by a young male suspect.

"At this time, all indications are that they did not have a chance to discharge their firearms," he said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64971967

Sound like he was waiting for the officers to come and shot them as they approached the apartment.
blankall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 11:16 AM   #29
MoneyGuy
Franchise Player
 
MoneyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Exp:
Default

I’d like to know how a 16/17-year-old kid gets his hands on a gun.
MoneyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 11:18 AM   #30
8 Ball
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
I’d like to know how a 16/17-year-old kid gets his hands on a gun.
Yes, or what type of gun it was.
8 Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 11:21 AM   #31
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 Ball View Post
Yes, or what type of gun it was.
That's a good question. If it's a handgun and he managed to take down two cops before they got a shot off, you'd assume he has quite a bit of experience with the hand gun.

Do we know if the shooter was known to police?
blankall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 11:44 AM   #32
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
I’d like to know how a 16/17-year-old kid gets his hands on a gun.
We'll its pretty unlikely that he walked into a friendly neighbourhood guns r us, filled out the paper work, wrote a check, waited for the paperwork to be taken in and all the other hoops you have to jump through to buy a legal gun.

I expect he bought it off the street, maybe he was a member of a gang, who knows.

But I have my doubts that this was a legal firearm.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 12:08 PM   #33
GreenLantern2814
Franchise Player
 
GreenLantern2814's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports View Post
We're becoming the US. Soon officers will have to answer domestic call with guns drawn. And of course, at some point, an officer will shoot first.
No, we’re not.

The US is a country where everyone is armed, or could be.

In Canada, there are very specific laws about how you can transport guns, where you use them, and how you need to store them securely.

If this is a legally-owned gun, the owner was obviously not following the law, and a tragically unbalanced child gained access to a weapon and killed two cops. If those procedures were followed correctly by the gun owner, those two men would be alive.

Tragedies are inevitable when you have 10M+ guns in a country.

But they don’t happen with nearly the frequency of the US because almost nobody who isn’t actively involved in organized crime has a gun on them.

Except when they’re at home, and have immediate access.

How officers approach residences on domestic calls should be reviewed, and I’m sure they will be.

Our ability as a nation to (generally) use these things responsibly should be held up as shining example to the world of effective gun control without outright prohibition.
__________________
Mom and Dad love you, Rowan - February 15, 2024
GreenLantern2814 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GreenLantern2814 For This Useful Post:
Old 03-17-2023, 12:11 PM   #34
CroFlames
Franchise Player
 
CroFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Any update on the mother? Hopefully she survives.
CroFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 12:25 PM   #35
DoubleF
Franchise Player
 
DoubleF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Exp:
Default

Sorry, it's semantics and splitting hairs. My concerns about wording has nothing to do with the situation and I meant it that from my perspective that it seems unnecessarily cynical to use the word ambush. Using this term might put people more on edge in an "us vs them" situation when going into an unknown situation. It might make us feel more worried for no reason about the state of the world. That's what I mean.

I didn't intend on stirring anything up. If my comment frustrated anyone, I apologize. Just consider I'm musing out loud and that I'm an unimportant idiot. I'll clarify what I meant and walk out of the thread.

---

I agree with CaptainCrunch that it is a sad situation and a waste of life. I get where you guys are coming from and what you mean. I'm just an idiot mumbling dumb things out loud.

I read the article and I just don't come the the same "ambush" intent type of conclusion or evaluation. Like it wasn't a planned ambush, it was more like a panicked attack on two guys who didn't know what the situation was. To ambush IMO the kid would have had to have the intention to want to try and injure or kill a cop and intend on use the mother's situation and the subsequent call to carry out a plan, then die from a self inflicted gunshot would. I just don't like thinking this was what he actually wanted to do. I get why you guys agree ambush is an OK word because the article specifically states the cops didn't have time to pull our their weapons. I'm splitting hairs musing from the perspective of more 2nd degree murder for the cops vs first degree, because it just feels sadder to think it could be first degree... if that makes sense.

I don't know what was going on in the kid's head, for sure. I'd rather live life, having read this story, thinking he didn't start the day intending to harm more than his mother, before taking their own life. The world is crazy enough. Thinking this type of crazy is just around the corner and hidden everywhere is too much. Just consider that I read this with a more naive wishful thinking that it was pure random and not intentional.
DoubleF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 12:31 PM   #36
MoneyGuy
Franchise Player
 
MoneyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
Any update on the mother? Hopefully she survives.
Serious but stable condition early this morning. She had to be devastated. I wonder what happened on that home.

Last edited by MoneyGuy; 03-17-2023 at 12:33 PM.
MoneyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 12:32 PM   #37
btimbit
Franchise Player
 
btimbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
Any update on the mother? Hopefully she survives.
Overheard on the radio that she's stable as of late last night
btimbit is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to btimbit For This Useful Post:
Old 03-17-2023, 01:04 PM   #38
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

Not the first shooting for the teenager

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/teen-who...rces-1.6317912

Quote:
The 16-year-old boy who fatally shot two Edmonton police officers on Thursday is the same person who shot a Pizza Hut employee earlier this week, multiple sources have told CTV News Edmonton.
Quote:
Multiple sources have now confirmed the boy is also responsible for a shooting early Sunday morning that left a 55-year-old man with life-threatening injuries.
A shooter walked into the Pizza Hut at 114 Avenue and 132 Street around 12:30 a.m. on Sunday, and shot the employee.
Video

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/teen-who...rces-1.6317912
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 01:06 PM   #39
Dozer
Draft Pick
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Default

The shooter is also responsible for a random shooting at a pizza hut a few days earlier, almost killing the employee
Dozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2023, 01:21 PM   #40
GirlySports
NOT breaking news
 
GirlySports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
No, we’re not.

The US is a country where everyone is armed, or could be.

In Canada, there are very specific laws about how you can transport guns, where you use them, and how you need to store them securely.

If this is a legally-owned gun, the owner was obviously not following the law, and a tragically unbalanced child gained access to a weapon and killed two cops. If those procedures were followed correctly by the gun owner, those two men would be alive.

Tragedies are inevitable when you have 10M+ guns in a country.

But they don’t happen with nearly the frequency of the US because almost nobody who isn’t actively involved in organized crime has a gun on them.

Except when they’re at home, and have immediate access.

How officers approach residences on domestic calls should be reviewed, and I’m sure they will be.

Our ability as a nation to (generally) use these things responsibly should be held up as shining example to the world of effective gun control without outright prohibition.
I agree and hope you are right.

I'm with others here, interested in the 911 call. Order of events is important here. When was the call made, by who and what was said to the operator?

What happens now? Since the teenager is dead, there is no trail, what will come out in the investigation? Will we know?
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire

GirlySports is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:16 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021