Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving WJ players

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Weird. It's like you have never witnessed an NHL draft or something. There's lots of room for improvement but based on the countries the sport is widely played in it's not hard to understand why it's this way.

You mean a country like Canada, where according to the most recent census 30% of the population reports as a visible minority?

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Cole436

You mean a country like Canada, where according to the most recent census 30% of the population reports as a visible minority?

The number of minorities is much higher than 30% for those under 20.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The money hurdle is the biggest part IMO. Soccer is growing fast in this country because it doesn't really cost anything relative to hockey.

also the low level of skill needed for soccer helps

[Eric Vail]

Basketball and soccer are popular sports amount most of our new Canadians. Football and hockey are foreign and will be challenged to keep the current rates of interest given our changing demographics.

These reports about sexual assault and hazing aren't helping hockey.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cole436

You mean a country like Canada, where according to the most recent census 30% of the population reports as a visible minority?

How many minorities can afford to put their kids through hockey and how many want to?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

How many minorities can afford to put their kids through hockey and how many want to?

Of course there are reasonable explanations, but it doesn't necessarily make it excusable.

As a rich white guy myself, the primary reason I would never put my kids into hockey because of the persistently toxic culture. Of course I'm also lazy and don't want to deal with the equipment/ice times/etc

[FlamesAddiction]

It's not just money thing per se. One thing hockey lacks, at least in Canada, is casual play. You're either all in, or what's the point. If you don't have the opportunity to start skating and learning the game at a really young age, there is almost no way to get involved later because you will be so far behind. I think the pressure and time commitments are just as daunting as the financial costs. With other sports, you can usually find a casual community drop-in thing and let them test it out to see if they like it, but that doesn't exist with hockey so much.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Of course there are reasonable explanations, but it doesn't necessarily make it excusable.

As a rich white guy myself, the primary reason I would never put my kids into hockey because of the persistently toxic culture. Of course I'm also lazy and don't want to deal with the equipment/ice times/etc

We asked both of my boys if they wanted to play and they didn't. Selfishly we were both happy because of the money, time commitment, early mornings, etc. As for the photograph it's a predominantly white sport so it's not a surprise that the team comprised of the best junior players and people running it would be white. I mostly see white guys behind the benches coaching NHL teams for the same reasons. It's not a good thing but it's not really going to change until more minorities start playing the game at grassroot levels and that's happening more but it's going to take time as the NHL only just hired the first black GM.

[dubc80]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's not just money thing per se. One thing hockey lacks, at least in Canada, is casual play. You're either all in, or what's the point. If you don't have the opportunity to start skating and learning the game at a really young age, there is almost no way to get involved later because you will be so far behind. I think the pressure and time commitments are just as daunting as the financial costs. With other sports, you can usually find a casual community drop-in thing and let them test it out to see if they like it, but that doesn't exist with hockey so much.

With hockey these days, kids have more options that we did in the past.

- For the younger kids, there are lots of Try Hockey options like Flames First Shift, and many Intro to Hockey programs put on at places like the South Fish Creek, Seton YMCA, or Trico, etc. Once a week for a month or two.

- Most associations have a house league option, which is cheaper and more recreational than regular hockey. Its a set # of days per week with practices and games on the same days. No tournaments and no fundraising. I think they have this for U9 (novice), U11( Atom) and maybe U13 (Peewee)?

- In Calgary, you have RHC. Recreational Hockey Calgary which goes up to U18. I think you can request to be on friends teams in this league as there are no residential boundaries.

- I think the biggest positive change is also the ability to choose the NBC (Non-Body Contact) stream. Kids no longer have to worrying about getting murdered by a big kid wanting to run a kid for the laughs. When I played, hitting started in peewee for everyone at all levels with no training what so ever. Many kids got hurt.

In addition, there are many financial supports which families can apply for.

Not diminishing the financial and time commitment aspect as it is truly a massive barrier, but things are better now than when I played in the 90's.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by dubc80

With hockey these days, kids have more options that we did in the past.

- For the younger kids, there are lots of Try Hockey options like Flames First Shift, and many Intro to Hockey programs put on at places like the South Fish Creek, Seton YMCA, or Trico, etc. Once a week for a month or two.

- Most associations have a house league option, which is cheaper and more recreational than regular hockey. Its a set # of days per week with practices and games on the same days. No tournaments and no fundraising. I think they have this for U9 (novice), U11( Atom) and maybe U13 (Peewee)?

- In Calgary, you have RHC. Recreational Hockey Calgary which goes up to U18. I think you can request to be on friends teams in this league as there are no residential boundaries.

- I think the biggest positive change is also the ability to choose the NBC (Non-Body Contact) stream. Kids no longer have to worrying about getting murdered by a big kid wanting to run a kid for the laughs. When I played, hitting started in peewee for everyone at all levels with no training what so ever. Many kids got hurt.

In addition, there are many financial supports which families can apply for.

Not diminishing the financial and time commitment aspect as it is truly a massive barrier, but things are better now than when I played in the 90's.

Here in Lethbridge we have Lethbridge Rec Hockey. It costs 50-75% less than minor hockey, depending on the kids age. They have 5 divisions divided by age range and each division gets one ice time per week on the same day, time and rink. Pretty easy. They do drills for the first half of ice then scrimmage and once a month they light up the clock and have an actual game. It's a great program and anyone of any skill level can play. It has been around since 2016 as Lethbridge Rec Hockey but it started in the 90s in Coaldale and grew.

There is another similar organization in Lethbridge. It isn't advertised, it runs by word of mouth is full and has been around since the 80s.

Organizations like these do exist and they are a great alternative for kids and families who don't have the time and/or money to participate in minor hockey or just don't want their kids in the toxic hockey culture that's slowly being revealed.

Unfortunately these are limited in size or exposure but hopefully more of these organizations pop up in communities across the country because it is a great opportunity for kids to have fun playing the game.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Buff

Here in Lethbridge we have Lethbridge Rec Hockey. It costs 50-75% less than minor hockey, depending on the kids age. They have 5 divisions divided by age range and each division gets one ice time per week on the same day, time and rink. Pretty easy. They do drills for the first half of ice then scrimmage and once a month they light up the clock and have an actual game. It's a great program and anyone of any skill level can play. It has been around since 2016 as Lethbridge Rec Hockey but it started in the 90s in Coaldale and grew.

There is another similar organization in Lethbridge. It isn't advertised, it runs by word of mouth is full and has been around since the 80s.

Organizations like these do exist and they are a great alternative for kids and families who don't have the time and/or money to participate in minor hockey or just don't want their kids in the toxic hockey culture that's slowly being revealed.

Unfortunately these are limited in size or exposure but hopefully more of these organizations pop up in communities across the country because it is a great opportunity for kids to have fun playing the game.

The culture exists in any elite sport worldwide. I know this is a story about what happened at Hockey Canada but let's not assume it is only hockey. The same ####e could happen in everything from soccer to tennis.

[dubc80]

Originally Posted by Buff

Here in Lethbridge we have Lethbridge Rec Hockey. It costs 50-75% less than minor hockey, depending on the kids age. They have 5 divisions divided by age range and each division gets one ice time per week on the same day, time and rink. Pretty easy. They do drills for the first half of ice then scrimmage and once a month they light up the clock and have an actual game. It's a great program and anyone of any skill level can play. It has been around since 2016 as Lethbridge Rec Hockey but it started in the 90s in Coaldale and grew.

There is another similar organization in Lethbridge. It isn't advertised, it runs by word of mouth is full and has been around since the 80s.

Organizations like these do exist and they are a great alternative for kids and families who don't have the time and/or money to participate in minor hockey or just don't want their kids in the toxic hockey culture that's slowly being revealed.

Unfortunately these are limited in size or exposure but hopefully more of these organizations pop up in communities across the country because it is a great opportunity for kids to have fun playing the game.

As a dad, that is the biggest turn off. As soon as I had a son, I knew playing hockey would be something I'd look forward to doing with him. I cherish the last 3 years that he has played (and that I've been able to help coach) and he is still young, and we have not run into any instances of the toxic culture YET, but I'm also not naive enough to think it will never happen one day.

I know he will never be in the elite stream which is totally ok, and kind of a relief actually.

He'll tell me he doesnt want to play one day, but be good enough to pot a few goals in div 5 beer league, and remember those times he had with dad behind the bench. That is good enough for me!!!

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The money hurdle is the biggest part IMO. Soccer is growing fast in this country because it doesn't really cost anything relative to hockey.

I am not sure this is the case anymore. Soccer is now almost at par with Hockey from what my chequebook tells me.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Buff

Here in Lethbridge we have Lethbridge Rec Hockey. It costs 50-75% less than minor hockey, depending on the kids age. They have 5 divisions divided by age range and each division gets one ice time per week on the same day, time and rink. Pretty easy. They do drills for the first half of ice then scrimmage and once a month they light up the clock and have an actual game. It's a great program and anyone of any skill level can play. It has been around since 2016 as Lethbridge Rec Hockey but it started in the 90s in Coaldale and grew.

There is another similar organization in Lethbridge. It isn't advertised, it runs by word of mouth is full and has been around since the 80s.

Organizations like these do exist and they are a great alternative for kids and families who don't have the time and/or money to participate in minor hockey or just don't want their kids in the toxic hockey culture that's slowly being revealed.

Unfortunately these are limited in size or exposure but hopefully more of these organizations pop up in communities across the country because it is a great opportunity for kids to have fun playing the game.

These alternative leagues are not exempt from this, trust me. Don't think that by having less structure, ice times, fees, commitment and organization that dumb a$$es don't exist.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Mccree

I am not sure this is the case anymore. Soccer is now almost at par with Hockey from what my chequebook tells me.

It is truly ridiculous the money parents shell out for youth sports. Club volleyball, cheer, soccer, hockey, academies, might as well just put your cash right into the shredder. Like why is the club volleyball team going to San Francisco for a tournament? Same reason the cheer squad is going to Orlando for 2 three minute performances, the same reason the spring hockey team is going to Phoenix for a tournament, the Parents. They can brag, boast post on Facebook all about it, then b!tch and moan about the cost, time away and how they underperformed and are looking for a new coach or to jump to another organization for next year. Would be comical if it wasn't so depressing.

[dubc80]

The other big change I noticed in minor hockey is the rise of all these private hockey schools, academies, etc for the elite.

Un-sanctioned private leagues in the spring, summer.... travelling all-star teams that play in these "showcases". It's insane. Utterly insane.

I'd like to see stats on NHL draft picks.

I bet a vast majority of them come from these programs, and do not come from conventional minor hockey.

I always laugh when they interview players during Heritage Classics, and Winter Classics and ask them about the feeling about playing outside and the nostalgia.
I bet modern day NHL players spent a grand total of 0 hours playing outdoors.

Who needs to shovel off a crappy pond and get frostbite when you get prime time ice every day after school?

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

The culture exists in any elite sport worldwide. I know this is a story about what happened at Hockey Canada but let's not assume it is only hockey. The same ####e could happen in everything from soccer to tennis.

I'm not assuming it is only hockey and nowhere did I say this was limited to hockey. I was talking about hockey organizations that people put their kids into instead of minor hockey due to the toxic hockey culture that is know to often be a part of minor hockey.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

The culture exists in any elite sport worldwide. I know this is a story about what happened at Hockey Canada but let's not assume it is only hockey. The same ####e could happen in everything from soccer to tennis.

Literally nobody has argued otherwise. What is your point?

Hockey is the biggest sport here, so naturally we should direct a higher share of our efforts to un####ing it.

Just like the culture Futbol Brazil (or whatever its called) should be a bigger concern to Brazilians than Hockey Brazil.


We have discussed earlier in the early days of this thread that there are a few reasons hockey is one of the more concerning sports - one of the big ones being the 'locker room culture' from a young age. It is an environment conducive to breeding a toxic culture, compared to many other sports you show up, sit on the sideline if the preceding game isn't finished, then play and go home.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's not just money thing per se. One thing hockey lacks, at least in Canada, is casual play. You're either all in, or what's the point. If you don't have the opportunity to start skating and learning the game at a really young age, there is almost no way to get involved later because you will be so far behind. I think the pressure and time commitments are just as daunting as the financial costs. With other sports, you can usually find a casual community drop-in thing and let them test it out to see if they like it, but that doesn't exist with hockey so much.

Not true, we have a pind hockey team/league here that is glorified shinny (u13 and u18). Kids love it and dont need any experience.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

It is truly ridiculous the money parents shell out for youth sports. Club volleyball, cheer, soccer, hockey, academies, might as well just put your cash right into the shredder. Like why is the club volleyball team going to San Francisco for a tournament? Same reason the cheer squad is going to Orlando for 2 three minute performances, the same reason the spring hockey team is going to Phoenix for a tournament, the Parents. They can brag, boast post on Facebook all about it, then b!tch and moan about the cost, time away and how they underperformed and are looking for a new coach or to jump to another organization for next year. Would be comical if it wasn't so depressing.

It wouldn't haven anything to do with how fun it is to go on trip with some of your closest friends and the people you spend all your time with. Nope. It's to brag.