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Old 06-11-2021, 10:50 PM   #13381
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I watched all of the Vegas Colorado series, and one thing that really struck me was that Vegas isn't an ultra-talented team. They have a couple of elite players and world-class goaltending, but they win by playing a specific style of team game, and having good depth.
Islanders are very similar in that way.

Vegas has the best top 3 D in the league. Pietrangelo, Theodore, Martinez. All of these guys could be a top D on an average team.


Except for the Canes no one else comes close on their top 3.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:00 PM   #13382
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To get Eichel, silly.

Just throwing out the idea.
Iím starting to feel like Jack Eichel is being put up on a pedestal here. Great player, but injury prone, dealing with a risky surgery dilemma, is suspect defensively and isnít a proven playoff performer. Heck, Johnny Gaudreau has a better career points per game than Jack Eichel and yet Gaudreauís name is littered in this thread.

Iíd like the Flames to pick Eichel too, but not at all costs and losing Tkachuk while adding Jeff Skinnerís contract is a recipe to take this team major steps backwards.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:05 PM   #13383
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Vegas has the best top 3 D in the league. Pietrangelo, Theodore, Martinez. All of these guys could be a top D on an average team.


Except for the Canes no one else comes close on their top 3.
Vegas is also fast, relentless, heavy and connected, Their identity and connected play makes up for their lack of star power or depth at center. Their D are great, but their forwards seem to really drive their checking game which seems to be their bread and butter.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:32 PM   #13384
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Vegas has the best top 3 D in the league. Pietrangelo, Theodore, Martinez. All of these guys could be a top D on an average team.


Except for the Canes no one else comes close on their top 3.

Interesting point.
My first instinct was to dispute it, but on thinking about it I am challenged to come up with many teams better, at least off the top of my head.

Colorado probably and certainly if Byram develops properly.
Dallas and Nashville are also very good, so I'd say there are several teams that are close.
Nevertheless, Vegas was the best defensive team in the league, so they are doing it right.

Last edited by blender; 06-11-2021 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 06-12-2021, 12:57 AM   #13385
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I would argue Makar/Girard/Toews is much better. Pulock/Pelech/Leddy is also probably better.
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Old 06-12-2021, 01:14 AM   #13386
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Originally Posted by blender View Post
Interesting point.
My first instinct was to dispute it, but on thinking about it I am challenged to come up with many teams better, at least off the top of my head.

Colorado probably and certainly if Byram develops properly.
Dallas and Nashville are also very good, so I'd say there are several teams that are close.
Nevertheless, Vegas was the best defensive team in the league, so they are doing it right.

I didn't mean to say that as a hard fact or anything. But Dallas didn't make the playoffs and Nashville hasn't had their forwards and defence on the same page for a long time now. As for Colorado... They're defence is better on paper than they are on the ice in the playoffs. I think that's about the most polite way I can say that.



Vegas has that rare thing where their top 3 D are amongst the best, and their forwards back them up.
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Old 06-12-2021, 03:28 AM   #13387
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Disagree.
Colorado has more high-end to elite talent for sure. Carolina and Florida also come to mind.
Toronto's big 4 is a very good group.

If you want to talk elite talent, Vegas has Stone, Pietrangelo...anyone else?
What Vegas does have is a lot of depth and quality players through the lineup. They have size and can skate.
Great team, no doubt, but in my mind they are the counterpoint to the argument that you need to be loaded with elite talent to win.
But then again, they haven't won anything yet, and obviously haven't faced the Lightning, so we shall see.

He said ďtop to bottomĒ, which is not comparing the top end talent but the entire 20 man roster.


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Old 06-12-2021, 09:20 AM   #13388
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I would argue Makar/Girard/Toews is much better. Pulock/Pelech/Leddy is also probably better.
Slavin/Hamilton/Pesce in that mix, too.

Weber/Petry/Chiarot

Hedman/Sergachev/McDonagh




Is Martinez really that much of an X-factor?

I forgot:

Darnell Nurse. He's so good he counts for 3 on his own.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:01 AM   #13389
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Well I guess I have to mention Josi/Ellis/Ekholm.
It would be a crime not to. Nashville has fallen off but those 3 are still elite.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:47 AM   #13390
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Disagree.
Colorado has more high-end to elite talent for sure. Carolina and Florida also come to mind.
Toronto's big 4 is a very good group.

If you want to talk elite talent, Vegas has Stone, Pietrangelo...anyone else?
What Vegas does have is a lot of depth and quality players through the lineup. They have size and can skate.
Great team, no doubt, but in my mind they are the counterpoint to the argument that you need to be loaded with elite talent to win.
But then again, they haven't won anything yet, and obviously haven't faced the Lightning, so we shall see.
Vegas has seven legitimate top-6 forwards - Stone, Patches, Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Tuch, Stephenson.

They have three 1st pair D.

Two starting goalies, and their #1 is quite literally the modern day Patrick Roy. You can check their numbers.

Even their enforcer is the best at his craft in the league, counting $2M less against the cap than Looch (who I have no issues with since he’s been here).

We may be losing the forest for the trees - you need high end players to compete.

Calgary doesn’t currently have enough high end players.

An opportunity to acquire a player on the MacKinnon/McDavid tier has presented itself.

Seize it.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:51 AM   #13391
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When was the last time a player of Eichel’s caliber was left for trade? Gotta get him while you can.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:00 AM   #13392
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Will Sutter want Martinez in Calgary?
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:04 AM   #13393
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I guess the deal is that if you don’t have a Mackinnon or a Kucherov, you need someone who can shut that person down.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:07 AM   #13394
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I’m genuinely curious to know which team in the league has the absolute worst RW depth. I would suspect the Flames would rank up there for worst in the league if Tkachuk was traded. The right wing UFA market looks like absolute trash too. So not sure how much help we’ll get from there and to be honest, I’m a little scared the scouts on this team will just end up picking up more Brett Ritchie’s and Joakim Nordstrom’s of the world again.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:13 AM   #13395
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I guess the deal is that if you donít have a Mackinnon or a Kucherov, you need someone who can shut that person down.
Eichel or no Eichel, we should heavily pursue Danault. He shut down Matthews really well.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:22 AM   #13396
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Will Sutter want Martinez in Calgary?
Canít imagine an imagine an American guy who has lived in the 24/7 heat of Los Angeles and Las Vegas would want to move to the snowy prairies of Canada. Iíve seen crazier things though, so who knows.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:23 AM   #13397
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Eichel or no Eichel, we should heavily pursue Danault. He shut down Matthews really well.
If we were to get Eichel, Lindholm gets the shutdown minutes.

Datsyuk needed his Zetterberg.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:35 AM   #13398
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If we were to get Eichel, Lindholm gets the shutdown minutes.

Datsyuk needed his Zetterberg.
Why wouldn’t Backlund get this duty? Generally speaking, he’s been the premier shut down guy on the team for years now. It’s essentially his role and he relishes it. Lindholm probably would make a formidable shutdown center though, but I think his skillset would better used in an offensive role.

EDIT: Also, if I’m not mistaken. Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg were elite defensively. So not sure it was a Batman needs Robin kind of thing.

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Old 06-12-2021, 11:48 AM   #13399
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Why wouldnít Backlund get this duty? Generally speaking, heís been the premier shut down guy on the team for years now. Itís essentially his role and he relishes it. Lindholm probably would make a formidable shutdown center though, but I think his skillset would better used in an offensive role.

EDIT: Also, if Iím not mistaken. Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg were elite defensively. So not sure it was a Batman needs Robin kind of thing.
Backlund is more of a 3rd liner, as he has limited offensive upside.

Lindholm is way more of a complete player.
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Old 06-12-2021, 11:56 AM   #13400
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
Why wouldnít Backlund get this duty? Generally speaking, heís been the premier shut down guy on the team for years now. Itís essentially his role and he relishes it. Lindholm probably would make a formidable shutdown center though, but I think his skillset would better used in an offensive role.

EDIT: Also, if Iím not mistaken. Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg were elite defensively. So not sure it was a Batman needs Robin kind of thing.
Ultimately, because Lindholm is better.

Backlund is good defensively. When we ask him to shadow a McDavid or MacKinnon, we lose, often with those star players adding a spectacular goal to their reel.

Zetterberg vs Crosby was the matchup Babcock wanted - not meaning to disparage Datsyuk.

In a Final, itís elite of the elite vs elite of the elite. Itís fine to send Kris Draper out to harass Sid in November or February. In June, you send a star to deal with another star - you donít send Robin to face the Joker.

We need a minimum of Eichel/Lindholm/Backlund/+ because whoever weíd play likely has a centre group thatís at least as good as that, and probably better.
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