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Old 08-20-2020, 07:58 AM   #1
FlameOn
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Another Russian opposition leader and fierce opponent of Putin, Alexei Navalny, has been poisoned and is in critical condition.

This is the latest in a long string of Russian journalists, anti-corruption and Putin opponents that have suffered poisonings and violent deaths most notability:
  • Polonium radiation poisoning death of former KGB agent Litvineko
  • Novochok nerve agent poisoning death of former KGB agent Skripal
  • Poisoning of former Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko
  • Two time poisoning of Russian opposition leader Vladimir Kara-Murza
  • Poisoning of journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin
  • Shooting deaths of journalist Anna Politkovskaya, opposition leader Boris Berezovsky, Boris Nemtsov, former army colonel Yushenkov
  • Kidnapping and torture of journalist Natalia Estemirova and lawyer Sergei Magnitsky

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Russian opposition figure Alexei Navalny is unconscious in hospital suffering from suspected poisoning, his spokeswoman has said.

The anti-corruption campaigner fell ill during a flight and the plane made an emergency landing in Omsk, Kira Yarmysh said, adding that they suspected something had been mixed into his tea.

The Kremlin said that it wished Mr Navalny a "speedy recovery".

Mr Navalny, 44, has been a staunch critic of President Vladimir Putin.

In June he described a vote on constitutional reforms as a "coup" and a "violation of the constitution". The reforms allow Mr Putin to serve another two terms in office.

Kira Yarmysh, the press secretary for the Anti-Corruption Foundation, which Mr Navalny founded in 2011, tweeted: "This morning Navalny was returning to Moscow from Tomsk.

"During the flight, he felt ill. The plane made an urgent landing in Omsk. Alexei has toxic poisoning."

She added: "We suspect that Alexei was poisoned by something mixed into [his] tea. It was the only thing he drank since morning.

"Doctors are saying that the toxic agent absorbed faster through the hot liquid. Right now Alexei is unconscious."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53844958

Meanwhile at world leader summits with Putin


Purposely made the thread title vague since this won't be the last time some Putin critic gets offed.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:01 AM   #2
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Haha. Those guys are like Nope. No tea for me thanks. Why is it still boiling?
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:04 AM   #3
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Wtf is this fake news bull####? Stop spewing liberal media lies, the guy died of natural causes.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:07 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Looch City View Post
Wtf is this fake news bull####? Stop spewing liberal media lies, the guy died of natural causes.
He's not dead...yet. Check and mate.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:12 AM   #5
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Ah an ol' Putin favourite.

Must have been tired of seeing all his critics accidentally open up windows and accidentally fall out of buildings.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:19 AM   #6
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Pretty solid reminder every time someone wants to call western democracies Facist or authoritarian. I don’t care how ####ty Trump is, or how many #### Trudeau slogans are out there... we’re not openly trying to murder political dissidents like certain other nations.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:29 AM   #7
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Vladimir Stalin
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
Pretty solid reminder every time someone wants to call western democracies Facist or authoritarian. I don’t care how ####ty Trump is, or how many #### Trudeau slogans are out there... we’re not openly trying to murder political dissidents like certain other nations.
Fascism has many markers, and is an apt description of the backslide going on in the US.

Authoritarianism is a completely separate identifier and shouldn't be conflated (though obviously overlaps can/will occur); this is much more in line with the latter than the former.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:42 AM   #9
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It's crazy how brazen Putin is with all of this...I guess you can't send a message unless people know about it. I still say the craziest Putin story is that time he stole Kraft's superbowl ring and then just denied doing it:

https://pagesix.com/2013/06/15/kraft...ole-bowl-ring/

Kraft was then pressured by GW Bush into making a public statement that it was a gift.

If it wasn't for Russia's horribly low birth rate and life expectancy, they would be taking over the world.
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
Pretty solid reminder every time someone wants to call western democracies Facist or authoritarian. I don’t care how ####ty Trump is, or how many #### Trudeau slogans are out there... we’re not openly trying to murder political dissidents like certain other nations.
Yet
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Old 08-20-2020, 10:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
Pretty solid reminder every time someone wants to call western democracies Facist or authoritarian. I don’t care how ####ty Trump is, or how many #### Trudeau slogans are out there... we’re not openly trying to murder political dissidents like certain other nations.
Nazi Germany wasn't the Nazis we know in a day. Stalin wasn't the murderous person he was in a day. No authoritarian regime is their final form on the 1st day.

I get what you're saying as we're not there yet. Key word is YET. But to ignore those signs and say it's not fascism because we haven't crossed the dictionary definition yet is foolish. Plenty acts of fascism have been put in place since 2016 in the US. Don't pretend it's not pushing for a full-time job.
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Old 08-20-2020, 10:46 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
It's crazy how brazen Putin is with all of this...

If it wasn't for Russia's horribly low birth rate and life expectancy, they would be taking over the world.
Taking over the world was more of the CCCP's goal and never really Putin's. It's very interesting if you follow Putin's rise to power from various docs like like "Putin's Way", "Inside Putin's Russia" and "Putin: A Russian Spy Story", you can see his mentality and how it shifts from his original goals of restoring Russia to it's cold war greatness, to now seemingly just maintaining his own power by bringing down everyone to Russia's level.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
Pretty solid reminder every time someone wants to call western democracies Facist or authoritarian. I don’t care how ####ty Trump is, or how many #### Trudeau slogans are out there... we’re not openly trying to murder political dissidents like certain other nations.
You're right, people need to careful about crying wolf about terms that have a heavy meaning. But there have been some very worrying trends that I would consider pre-fascist, particularly coming from our southern neighbour.

You could say the same line in 1930s Western democratic Europe and it wouldn't be wrong. "I don’t care how ####ty Hitler is, or how many #### Franco
slogans are out there... we’re not openly trying to murder political dissidents like Stalin is."

We're not Russia and I don't think we ever will be, but there is enough historical examples where things can go downhill quickly in democratic countries. There were warning signs in those countries before they got to the point of openly murdering of political dissidents.
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Old 08-20-2020, 12:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Huntingwhale View Post
Nazi Germany wasn't the Nazis we know in a day. Stalin wasn't the murderous person he was in a day. No authoritarian regime is their final form on the 1st day.

I get what you're saying as we're not there yet. Key word is YET. But to ignore those signs and say it's not fascism because we haven't crossed the dictionary definition yet is foolish. Plenty acts of fascism have been put in place since 2016 in the US. Don't pretend it's not pushing for a full-time job.
I think this point gets missed a lot. When learning about history, a casual observer focuses on the end result and views events as inevitable, without focusing on the fluidity. Part if it is way we teach it, by dividing history into blocks of time, as if each block is isolated from the one before it. These get extended the further in time we get. You can draw straight lines from events that occurred hundreds of years ago to the current geopolitical climate we are in now, but too often we mentally make segments, which is detrimental to understanding how things happened.

We teach Medieval European history as a 1,000 year block, but then divide up WW1, WW2 Middle East turmoil, the Balkan Wars, etc... into short segments, as if each wasn't part of a feedback loop caused by the previous. From there you can keep going back as WW1 was fed by democratic revolution, which was fed colonialism, which was fed by the industrial revolution, and so on. You can literally keep going back until the dawn of civilization down many different tangents.

That's why drawing comparisons to the minutia is a worthwhile exorcise. It's about recognizing important crossroads and indicators, not about direct comparisons.
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Old 08-20-2020, 01:03 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Looch City View Post
Wtf is this fake news bull####? Stop spewing liberal media lies, the guy died of natural causes.
Weird flex but ok.
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Old 08-20-2020, 04:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by FlameOn View Post
Taking over the world was more of the CCCP's goal and never really Putin's. It's very interesting if you follow Putin's rise to power from various docs like like "Putin's Way", "Inside Putin's Russia" and "Putin: A Russian Spy Story", you can see his mentality and how it shifts from his original goals of restoring Russia to it's cold war greatness, to now seemingly just maintaining his own power by bringing down everyone to Russia's level.
I get the idea that Russia's game, historically anyways, is all about the long game. They constantly seem to be pushing the envelope.

You may be right that Putin is just pandering to this idea of expansion to maintain his own grip on power, but the practical effect is Russia invading surrounding nations. Post-USSR it seemed to start out in places that nobody paid much attention to, largely in the North Caucasus. However, more recently the invasions seem to be getting bolder and bolder, like the Crimea. They also seem to be actively collapsing the governments of surrounding nations, with the purpose of annexing portions of them.

I honestly think that if the Russians had an expanding and healthy population, we'd be seeing them implementing their current strategy on a much larger scale.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:13 PM   #17
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My Canary in the Coal Mine is Racheal Maddows of MSNBC, if she has a terrible car/hunting/canoe accident then its game over and democracy is officially dead
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Old 08-21-2020, 05:59 AM   #18
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.damn. don't mind me.....

Last edited by combustiblefuel; 08-21-2020 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 08-21-2020, 08:04 AM   #19
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O sir. You simply don't see nuances when It comes to politics. Some extend with the bayonet some extend a hand with the bayonet concealed.

Our governments dont do it ou this blatant. We have detention centres in N.A. The government doesn't want the be as blatant as russia any N.A government will juat imprison you and most likly poof . Tour gone and the federal governments can juat3 say cameras were shut off or he was reaching for my weapon take your pick. Putin dosnt care about the worlds perception. He can always just deal with china to get any goods he needs . China will never santion the usa. On the other hand government in the wast can be blatant. Our manufacturing capabilities are next to none. We over produce and only focis on certain crops,we need the international markets to buy our oil because we didnt invest early enough in renewable resources etc etc.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:27 AM   #20
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Ya.. reading that the mourning after your .gif seems like the right reaction.
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