Sean Monahan vs Jarome Iginla - Heading into their 24-year old seasons

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Between Iginla and Ovechkin Gary Bettman handed the Stanley Cup to only one of these captains.

Meh. I guess that makes Lanny a better captain. Also Derian Hatcher, Rod Brind'amour, Dustin Brown, and Eddie Litzenburger.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Neither one was a great skater.

Maybe he's lost a step now, but Ovechkin was an awesome skater in his prime. Maybe the most explosive first stride, which is huge in a game like hockey. Probably forgetting some names but from ~2006 to ~2010 the top skaters in the NHL were probably Ovechkin, Marleau, Crosby, Niedermayer, Gaborik, Kovalchuk, JBo

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Meh. I guess that makes Lanny a better captain. Also Derian Hatcher, Rod Brind'amour, Dustin Brown, and Eddie Litzenburger.

Who knows? How does one measure "captaining" anyways? It strikes me as dubious to suggest that Ovechkin is not a very good one, or that Iginla is somehow better.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Guys like Yzerman, Sakic, Messier, Dionne etc aren't even considered generational. They were truly elite, but generational is something that sets you apart from past and present players. I think Jarome is a group with those exceptional players, but not generational. It's criminal he wasn't part of the 100 best NHLers.



Mario & Wayne for obvious reasons.



Orr for obvious reasons.



The Rocket for goals.



Howe for goals and longevity.



I consider Sid & Ovi to both be generational. Ovi will go down as the best goal scorer ever, and Sid will go down as the best complete player.



As good as McDingle has been, I think he's already fallen out of the conversation of being generational, but will remain elite for a long time.

McDavid could/will very likely win his third Art Ross trophy in what will be just his fourth NHL season which would put him ahead of both Crosby and Ovechkin career wise.. He is very much trending to be generational.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Maybe he's lost a step now, but Ovechkin was an awesome skater in his prime. Maybe the most explosive first stride, which is huge in a game like hockey. Probably forgetting some names but from ~2006 to ~2010 the top skaters in the NHL were probably Ovechkin, Marleau, Crosby, Niedermayer, Gaborik, Kovalchuk, JBo

Just before your period maybe, but man could Fedorov skate.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Playing in the Olympics? Captaining? Commercials? Number of middle names?

I imagine if Iginla wasn’t the charismatic guy that he is, we wouldn’t even be having this debate. He was a great representative of the Flames.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Who knows? How does one measure "captaining" anyways? It strikes me as dubious to suggest that Ovechkin is not a very good one, or that Iginla is somehow better.

Oh, agreed. I was really just positiing some ideas of where he might be suprior, since the league seemed to think he was this great captain (and no one ever said that about Ovie). What I do discount is the fact that Ovie won a cup. I think Ovie's cup is perhaps a lesser achievement as a captain than Iggy carrying the 04 Flames to the finals (along with Kipper, and with a big nod to Gelinas of course).

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That’s laughable. Ovechkin captained his team to a Stanley Cup. I could give a rats ass if he ever engaged in a fight with another player. He is better than Iginla ever was at almost everything that matters in hockey. Ovechkin is a “generational” player by most measures; Iginla is not.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While Jarome Iginla was an active NHL player (1996-2017) not one single other player scored more goals than he did.

A human generation is about 22-33 years (wiki).

If being the best goal scorer of your entire generation doesn't make you a generational player, you need new metrics for determining who makes the cut. smh.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

While Jarome Iginla was an active NHL player (1996-2017) not one single other player scored more goals than he did.

A human generation is about 22-33 years (wiki).

If being the best goal scorer of your entire generation doesn't make you a generational player, you need new metrics for determining who makes the cut. smh.

That doesn't make sense at all. I know what you are trying to say but to me, all that says is Iginla was the best goal scorer from his draft class. How do you account for players who played between 1996-2017 but also outside of that time frame? For example, if a player started playing in 2016 and finishes with a career with more goals than Iginla (like OV), then what? Or if a player played until 2000s and retired but had more goals than Iginla (like Lemieux). In these cases, Iginla did not score more goals than everyone else who played during that time.

If you are trying to say no one scored more goals than him in any season he played, then sure... but he didn't.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by keenan87

That doesn't make sense at all. I know what you are trying to say but to me, all that says is Iginla was the best goal scorer from his draft class. How do you account for players who played between 1996-2017 but also outside of that time frame? For example, if a player started playing in 2016 and finishes with a career with more goals than Iginla (like OV), then what? Or if a player played until 2000s and retired but had more goals than Iginla (like Lemieux). In these cases, Iginla did not score more goals than everyone else who played during that time.

If you are trying to say no one scored more goals than him in any season he played, then sure... but he didn't.

If you move the needle back to 1990, six years before his career started, the only players to finish ahead of him in goal scoring are generational talents Teemu Selanne and Jaromir Jagr, the best players to ever play from their respective countries and both absolutely generational talents.

edit: even if you move the needle back an entire decade before he was drafted he still finishes 6th in goal scoring over a thirty year span where-in 4286 players played in the NHL. That's in the top 0.001% of goal scorers from 1986-2017... Is that not generational? how is this even possible to consider?

edit2: (These edits aren't directed at you keenan87, but just because I'm looking stuff up and don't want to spam the thread.) If you start at 1986 and go all the way until today, you add another 300 NHLers (4504) and he only moves down one spot to 7th, being passed by another generational talent in Alexander Ovechkin, the greatest Russian goal scorer of all time. If anyone is curious, he just passed Sergei Federov (1179) for most points by a Russian ever on Feb 5 against Vancouver (1180).

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

If you move the needle back to 1990, six years before his career started, the only players to finish ahead of him in goal scoring are generational talents Teemu Selanne and Jaromir Jagr, the best players to ever play from their respective countries and both absolutely generational talents.

That is definitely a fair point.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

If you move the needle back to 1990, six years before his career started, the only players to finish ahead of him in goal scoring are generational talents Teemu Selanne and Jaromir Jagr, the best players to ever play from their respective countries and both absolutely generational talents.

edit: even if you move the needle back an entire decade before he was drafted he still finishes 6th in goal scoring over a thirty year span where-in 4286 players played in the NHL. That's in the top 0.001% of goal scorers from 1986-2017... Is that not generational? how is this even possible to consider?

edit2: (These edits aren't directed at you keenan87, but just because I'm looking stuff up and don't want to spam the thread.) If you start at 1986 and go all the way until today, you add another 300 NHLers (4504) and he only moves down one spot to 7th, being past by another generational talent in Alexander Ovechkin, the greatest Russian goal scorer of all time. If anyone is curious, he just passed Sergei Federov (1179) for most points by a Russian ever on Feb 5 against Vancouver (1180).

I'll never forgive the nhl for leaving him off the top 100 list, for robbing him of his only cup with a ridiculous no-goal call in the playoffs, for locking out 3 times, twice during his prime, while he played, and those damn easterners who robbed him of the hart in favor of Jose ####ing Theodore. Blasphemy.

I loved the 2004 team but iginla carried a bunch of role players while miikka kiprusoff shut the door and we deserved that cup. No Gm was successful in really installing good talent around him during his time here. He still dominated and made our team relevant. All with a smile every damm day.

[GioforPM]

Iggy's problem was always that he was sandwiched between the Gretzky/Mario era and Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin. And, I guess, that Selanne, Jagr, Sakic and Forsberg were there at the beginning as well. Also, small market, on a team with not much success, and with not many other excellent guys.

Really, no one used the word "generational" that I can recall until Crosby came along, so they could compare him to Gretzky/Mario.

[GreenLantern2814]

If Monahan maintains his current 1.09 PPG pace, he'll end the year with 89 points. If he does that, he'll finish his 24 year old campaign with 370 points. At the end of the same time frame, Iginla had 363.

When I started this thread, I didn't think there was any way Monahan would still be ahead of Iggy in his production AFTER the Art Ross 02. He's going to at least have the same number of points, and likely more. Good job, Sean. Every day, I'm embarrassed to have wanted Nichushkin at 6.

#Retire23

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If Monahan maintains his current 1.09 PPG pace, he'll end the year with 89 points. If he does that, he'll finish his 24 year old campaign with 370 points. At the end of the same time frame, Iginla had 363.

When I started this thread, I didn't think there was any way Monahan would still be ahead of Iggy in his production AFTER the Art Ross 02. He's going to at least have the same number of points, and likely more. Good job, Sean. Every day, I'm embarrassed to have wanted Nichushkin at 6.

#Retire23

Numbers for Iggy would be different if our idiot coach and gm didn't run Marc Savard out of town.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Monahan making Love’s opinion of him look like sheer cluelessness yet again.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Numbers for Iggy would be different if our idiot coach and gm didn't run Marc Savard out of town.

Also the lockout in his prime.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Numbers for Iggy would be different if our idiot coach and gm didn't run Marc Savard out of town.

In the first five years of his career? They'd be exactly the same, and Monahan would still have more.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

In the first five years of his career? They'd be exactly the same, and Monahan would still have more.

and Iginla would still be twice the player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by icecube

and Iginla would still be twice the player.

Which is fine, because that is not the argument being made in this thread.