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Old 09-18-2018, 01:16 PM   #261
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It would be a crying shame to watch a team that has finally addressed skill and depth up front to miss out on the playoffs or flame out in the first round because of an injury to an aging goalie.

I think it would cost Tre his job, and I think that would be justified.

The time is now for this team.
I think Tre's job is on the line regardless. If Peter's turns out to be another dud of a coach and the Flames miss. I think that's enough reason to let him go.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:21 PM   #262
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Rittich's feet weren't set on a whole slew of those goals last night (and on a variety of saves). While that doesn't guarantee a save on them either, it's a pretty major deficiency in his game right now.

He's not trusting his game like when he first entered the NHL, it's causing him to guess, and it's showing in his footwork. I call the Dubnyk disease: Version Oilers. This criticism dates back to late last year for me.
I was thinking the same thing on the Bouchard goal. He tracked the puck but wasn't ready for any shot on net.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:23 PM   #263
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Too soon to make a deal on the goalie front unless a true number one is available. Someone that could be number one for next few years. Although I really have no idea what assets the Flames should/would part with in such a deal.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:37 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
It would be a crying shame to watch a team that has finally addressed skill and depth up front to miss out on the playoffs or flame out in the first round because of an injury to an aging goalie.

I think it would cost Tre his job, and I think that would be justified.

The time is now for this team.
I hope the ownership doesn't think like that.

In a cap world you can't fix every single zit on a roster, and most teams would be in trouble if they lost their starter.

Sure Smith is older, but his track record doesn't suggest he's injury prone.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:46 PM   #265
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The team will (and should) give Rittich and Gillies an opportunity to prove themselves before the aquire anyone else.

If Smith goes down and/or Rittich and Gillies both fail Treliving will aquire a guy like Reimer out of Florida. They signed Hutchinson in the offseason so now have 3 NHL calibre goalies.

The point is there is no need to panic, options will be available if the guys we have get hurt or just aren't good enough.

I still think we need to see what we have internally before worrying about it already, especially considering Rittich looked amazing before Smith got hurt.
Yeah that's not likely to happen. Hutchinson was acquired because there's no goaltending prospects anywhere near ready for NHL action in the Panthers system. Last year, Luongo went down with a prolonged injury and Reimer was the starter, and the backup was...of course Harri Sateri, that old familiar name.

The Flames want an insurance policy on a 36 year old Mike Smith, that makes sense. But if you're the Panthers and are looking to depend on 39 year old Roberto Luongo as your starter, and you have no prospects ready, would you give up Reimer at this point? Exactly.

The Flames have Rittich, Gillies, and Parsons all in the system capable of NHL play. It may not be ideal at the moment, but they are set up for a LOT more success than most teams with an aging goalie. I think you have to give kids a prolonged chance before declaring that you need to trade for a veteran starter. At some point this team is going to need a young goalie to go with it's young core.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:07 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
I hope the ownership doesn't think like that.

In a cap world you can't fix every single zit on a roster, and most teams would be in trouble if they lost their starter.

Sure Smith is older, but his track record doesn't suggest he's injury prone.
I did a quick glance and I found articles describing injuries to him in 2013/14, 2015/16, 2016/17 and of course last season.

Did he miss a lot of time? I don't have that info, but thats still plenty to suggest he may have issues staying healthy for a full season.

Even if he didn't miss much time, at his age and the length of time he missed last season are cause for concern this year. At least for me.

Last edited by Toonage; 09-18-2018 at 02:35 PM. Reason: correcting date
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:23 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
It would be a crying shame to watch a team that has finally addressed skill and depth up front to miss out on the playoffs or flame out in the first round because of an injury to an aging goalie.

I think it would cost Tre his job, and I think that would be justified.

The time is now for this team.
The window for this team has literally just opened. This is the first year in Treliving's entire tenure that they've had a roster that truly deserves to be viewed as a contender.

The last several years, the team has gone into the season with major holes. Like 1st line RW. Like goalie. Like 3rd line RW. Like the 4th line.

They have some young star players who are really good, and can will a bad roster with meh goaltending into the playoffs.

Those star players are just now entering the points of their careers where they put up their biggest offensive totals. And for the first time in their entire careers, they have help.

It takes time to turn over a roster. It's not like the concern is Treliving's lack of diligence. The Flames have no bad contracts right now - outside the core, nobody but Derek Ryan has more than two years left on their deals.

Treliving also has Monahan and Gaudreau signed for $8M less than McDavid/Draisaitl. That is an extra star player's worth of savings.

July 1 is my least favorite thing about Brad as the GM, but this July 1, Sergei Bobrovsky will be available. Unless Jon Gillies is a Vezina finalist, he'd be a fool to not be all in on the Bob train. No more half-measures, y'know?

Anyway, my point is, this is probably the first time this group has ever actually been put in a situation to succeed going into the year. You don't fire the GM now. You let him write Bobrovsky a cheque.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:30 PM   #268
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Sure Smith is older, but his track record doesn't suggest he's injury prone.
Doesn't it?

Since he entered the NHL, he has only had one season in which he didn't miss any time due to an injury (2014-15). Every other season of his career, he has missed a minimum of 6 total games due to various injuries.
  • 2006-07 = 6 games (concussion)
  • 2007-08 = 3 games (arm) / 3 games (knee)
  • 2008-09 = 32 games - end of season (post-concussion)
  • 2009-10 = 6 games (neck)
  • 2010-11 = 18 games (knee)
  • 2011-12 = 6 games (groin)
  • 2012-13 = 4 games (groin) / 6 games (upper body) / 2 games (lower body)
  • 2013-14 = 10 games - end of season (lower body)
  • 2014-15 = NONE
  • 2015-16 = 41 games (lower body)
  • 2016-17 = 12 games (lower body)
  • 2017-18 = 13 games (groin)

From here: https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player-bio/mike-smith/bio


That's a total of 106 games in the last 8 years that he has missed due to either knee, groin, or lower body injuries. One of those was at the end of the season, so he would have likely missed even more games had it occurred earlier.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:31 PM   #269
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huh
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #270
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Yeah that's not likely to happen. Hutchinson was acquired because there's no goaltending prospects anywhere near ready for NHL action in the Panthers system. Last year, Luongo went down with a prolonged injury and Reimer was the starter, and the backup was...of course Harri Sateri, that old familiar name.

The Flames want an insurance policy on a 36 year old Mike Smith, that makes sense. But if you're the Panthers and are looking to depend on 39 year old Roberto Luongo as your starter, and you have no prospects ready, would you give up Reimer at this point? Exactly.

The Flames have Rittich, Gillies, and Parsons all in the system capable of NHL play. It may not be ideal at the moment, but they are set up for a LOT more success than most teams with an aging goalie. I think you have to give kids a prolonged chance before declaring that you need to trade for a veteran starter. At some point this team is going to need a young goalie to go with it's young core.
Really?

I dont see that out of any of them at this time....of course we have 3 weeks to see if that changes but at this point Tre needs to be looking elsewhere as well.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:35 PM   #271
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Mistake last year letting Subban slide through waivers and sticking with Lack when prevailing wisdom was that he was losing his already limited skills.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:45 PM   #272
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Really?

I dont see that out of any of them at this time....of course we have 3 weeks to see if that changes but at this point Tre needs to be looking elsewhere as well.
Well I didn't say good NHL play, did I?
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:48 PM   #273
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Mistake last year letting Subban slide through waivers and sticking with Lack when prevailing wisdom was that he was losing his already limited skills.
Vegas had the higher waiver priority at the time Subban was waived. Even if the Flames had put in a claim on him, he still would have ended up in Vegas.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:03 PM   #274
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I would love to be proven wrong and have crow buffet, but you're only as good as your last game.
Wow must be a emotional rollercoaster following goaltenders for you.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:13 PM   #275
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Rittich's feet weren't set on a whole slew of those goals last night (and on a variety of saves). While that doesn't guarantee a save on them either, it's a pretty major deficiency in his game right now.

He's not trusting his game like when he first entered the NHL, it's causing him to guess, and it's showing in his footwork. I call the Dubnyk disease: Version Oilers. This criticism dates back to late last year for me.
Geez. Or maybe it was the first game of the season for a position that takes some time to get back in the groove? You think goaltenders can go flawlessly from not seeing real NHL shots all summer to suddenly being peppered by shots? Pretty unrealistic ask IMO.

Man do some people overanalyze performances in the 1st preseason game.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:21 PM   #276
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Geez. Or maybe it was the first game of the season for a position that takes some time to get back in the groove? You think goaltenders can go flawlessly from not seeing real NHL shots all summer to suddenly being peppered by shots? Pretty unrealistic ask IMO.

Man do some people overanalyze performances in the 1st preseason game.
I dont disagree especially with the bolded, but man he looked completely overmatched last night.

It wasnt just positioning either, he looked like he didnt have any idea with his reaction abilities.

He has a LOT of work to do. And it wasn't exactly "NHL shots" that he was facingeither...that was more or less an AHL squad.

Of course I personally saw a lot of this kind of thing with him at times last year even when he was winning a few games there, so IMO its not entirely surprising.

Really not sure he has the goods myself.

Goalies are weird though and at times can completely turn things around.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:21 PM   #277
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Really?

I dont see that out of any of them at this time....of course we have 3 weeks to see if that changes but at this point Tre needs to be looking elsewhere as well.
Needs to be? I dunno about that. What I see is a lot of people overanalyzing the 1st games of preseason at arguably the hardest position to jump right back into after a summer of not seeing NHL calibre shots in a game setting.

You wanna develop young goalies? We're gonna have to play them and deal with some growing pains just like any other position. Gillies and Rittich both show a ton of promise. To say Treliving "needs" to be looking elsewhere is questionable IMO. I think the Flames coaches and scouts have a lot more confidence in the ability of Gillies/Rittich than some of you do. They were rookies last year and had some expected growing pains. But we'll never develop any NHL goalies if we are too scared to trust them to be backups.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:27 PM   #278
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I dont disagree especially with the bolded, but man he looked completely overmatched last night.

It wasnt just positioning either, he looked like he didnt have any idea with his reaction abilities.

He has a LOT of work to do. And it wasn't exactly "NHL shots" that he was facingeither...that was more or less an AHL squad.

Of course I personally saw a lot of this kind of thing with him at times last year even when he was winning a few games there, so IMO its not entirely surprising.

Really not sure he has the goods myself.

Goalies are weird though and at times can completely turn things around.
What do people really expect from the 1st game at that position? Goalies are all about reflexes. Do you expect Major League batters to be 100% dialled in for the 1st game of spring training? Goaltending is similar.

Some of you appear to be expecting perfection in the 1st game of preseason at the hardest position to play in the league. That's just not how it works in real life. Players take a few games to get in the groove, get their reflexes, timing and positioning back.

Some of these discussions are just bizarre.

If you didn't think Rittich showed NHL promise last year I don't know what to say.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:35 PM   #279
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Halak played well it seemed for a first game.

Seems to me that the #2 position could be in flux depending on the performances of the non-Smiths.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:39 PM   #280
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What maybe most concerning about the performances of both Gillies & Rittich (even if its is the first game of pre-season for both) was that they looked identical to last season. Sure a guy like Smith had a rough outing in pre-season last year, but his body of work gave you pause to know he'd likely be fine. What tells us that here?
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