If one made a list of players who dramatically improved after playing 250 NHL games, who would be on it?
Van Riemsdyk is one, others?
Does he even need to "dramatically improve". If he can make regular progress and become a 60ish point player, I'll be pretty happy. There are definitely posters in here suggesting his cap is his current 3rd line play.
In other words the odds are pretty stacked against Bennett. It's not fair to say we held on too long because I believe Bennett's value was at the highest the day he was drafted and has slowly dropped since.
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Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
Does he even need to "dramatically improve". If he can make regular progress and become a 60ish point player, I'll be pretty happy. There are definitely posters in here suggesting his cap is his current 3rd line play.
This.
The guy is a 10-15 goal 10-15 assist hockey player no an affordable contract.
He's exactly the guy teams would want to acquire to be on their third lines. The Flames have him on their third line with hopes he improves and moves into a larger role.
The only way I trade him is if someone is still willing to pay for his draft projection (minus a slight adjustment).
Current value you keep him and hope his brain quiets down.
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Does he even need to "dramatically improve". If he can make regular progress and become a 60ish point player, I'll be pretty happy. There are definitely posters in here suggesting his cap is his current 3rd line play.
He doesn't have to improve at all, to be a third line winger. Only needs gradual improvement to be serviceable 2nd line, potentially.
There are also definitely posters in here suggesting he still has 1st line upside too. That would take dramatic improvement, no?
Flames would be wise to move out guys like Frolik and Brouwer keep Bennett. Bennett can still get better the other two will just get worse. Moving Bennett will create a bigger hole in a couple of years. Need patience with the young guys this isn't a contending team for a few years at least. That is unless Treliving screws up and Flames go further backwards this off-season.
I feel the reason people are polarized on Bennett aka really sour or really holding on to whatever thread of hope is left, is because he really was/is the key to us being a Stanley Cup contending team. Truth is that if Bennett had lived up to his draft status, which is that of a true No 1 game changing centerman, I think we’d be one of the stronger contenders in the league, not just now but for years to come. I really really hope a new coaching staff can figure him out, or somehow turn Janko into what we hoped Bennett would be, because without that missing piece its going to be tough to win at the highest level. I know its why I feel a bit sour now. 2 years ago, after his rookie season, I thought we were set up beautifully going forward. Thankfully we hit a home run with Tkachuk that gives me hope but if both had hit I think our lineup would be as good as any in the league.
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I feel the reason people are polarized on Bennett aka really sour or really holding on to whatever thread of hope is left, is because he really was/is the key to us being a Stanley Cup contending team. Truth is that if Bennett had lived up to his draft status, which is that of a true No 1 game changing centerman, I think we’d be one of the stronger contenders in the league, not just now but for years to come. I really really hope a new coaching staff can figure him out, or somehow turn Janko into what we hoped Bennett would be, because without that missing piece its going to be tough to win at the highest level. I know its why I feel a bit sour now. 2 years ago, after his rookie season, I thought we were set up beautifully going forward. Thankfully we hit a home run with Tkachuk that gives me hope but if both had hit I think our lineup would be as good as any in the league.
I disagree with this. Johnny plays a much bigger playmaking role than most wingers. He's capable of driving a first line. The team can contend with him and Monahan as our top line players.
The problem with the Flames was special teams and depth scoring. Frolik and Backlund had off years. Versteeg was injured. And the rest of the bottom six were horrible. The only bright spot in the bottom six was Bennett and jankowski figuring it out, but they didn't do it soon enough or consistently enough.
Teams like Nashville, Boston, and Vegas, who are killing it in the playoffs, just have much better scoring from their depth than we did. Even TB only has only two ppg guys.
With Brouwer, Frolik, Versteeg, and Bennett all scoring 40+ points the results from this team are drastically different.
Throw in the demise is Brodie and Smith's and Monahan's injuries and it's painfully obvious what happened this season.
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I was thinking of a potential Strome-Eberle type swap with Bennett.
Strome a top 5 pick from 2011 was traded for Eberle a later first round pick in 2008 who had a far more successful career and hefty contract. The Oilers moved Eberle due to his lack of production in the playoffs and for cap reasons. They did not really use the cap savings last season as they had $8M in free space. Strome has shown flashes but not progressed on Long Island.
For the Flames Bennett was a top 5 pick in 2014 so using identical age gap a player from 2011 would fit the bill. There happens to be a $6M player who has scored 30 in the past but struggled last year in Brandon Sadd
What do you think of Bennett for Sadd as our Strome for Eberle type deal?
I was thinking of a potential Strome-Eberle type swap with Bennett.
Strome a top 5 pick from 2011 was traded for Eberle a later first round pick in 2008 who had a far more successful career and hefty contract. The Oilers moved Eberle due to his lack of production in the playoffs and for cap reasons. They did not really use the cap savings last season as they had $8M in free space. Strome has shown flashes but not progressed on Long Island.
For the Flames Bennett was a top 5 pick in 2014 so using identical age gap a player from 2011 would fit the bill. There happens to be a $6M player who has scored 30 in the past but struggled last year in Brandon Sadd
What do you think of Bennett for Sadd as our Strome for Eberle type deal?
I don't see Chicago giving up on Saad just yet, as they paid a large price to get him.
I also think that Calgary would be very disappointed with Saad. Despite having far more ice time and opportunities than Bennett, his numbers were only marginally better. When you exclude those abysmal first 20 or so games Bennett had, Bennett's scoring pace is probably better.
Saad will be 26 by the time the next season starts. He probably doesn't have much room for growth. If we wanted a .5 ppg top 6 guy, we could probably get that out of Bennett right now, by simply giving Bennett those top 6 minutes and PP opportunities. Saad had a lot of time with Kane, who is a better version of Gaudreau.
Bennett also brings more intangibles and grit than Saad.
If Bennett asks for a fresh start, this'd be an okay return. I wouldn't make this move unless our hand is forced.
The only way I would want to see Bennett traded is if some team had so much confidence that he still had 1st line potential, they would pay a price that reflects that. That is unlikely of course.
Personally, I don't think we have anything to lose by holding on to him. At worst, he is a great bottom 6. At best, things will still come together for him as a top 6. Let's keep him and see how it plays out, but we also have to plan around him now instead of figuring him in as a top 6.
Edit: What Bingo said above ..........
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
I feel the reason people are polarized on Bennett aka really sour or really holding on to whatever thread of hope is left, is because he really was/is the key to us being a Stanley Cup contending team. Truth is that if Bennett had lived up to his draft status, which is that of a true No 1 game changing centerman, I think we’d be one of the stronger contenders in the league, not just now but for years to come.
100% agree. There were numerous posters (myself included) saying that Bennett was going to be better than Monahan and was projecting to push him down to be the 2C spot. How times have changed
I disagree with this. Johnny plays a much bigger playmaking role than most wingers. He's capable of driving a first line. The team can contend with him and Monahan as our top line players.
The problem with the Flames was special teams and depth scoring. Frolik and Backlund had off years. Versteeg was injured. And the rest of the bottom six were horrible. The only bright spot in the bottom six was Bennett and jankowski figuring it out, but they didn't do it soon enough or consistently enough.
Teams like Nashville, Boston, and Vegas, who are killing it in the playoffs, just have much better scoring from their depth than we did. Even TB only has only two ppg guys.
With Brouwer, Frolik, Versteeg, and Bennett all scoring 40+ points the results from this team are drastically different.
Throw in the demise is Brodie and Smith's and Monahan's injuries and it's painfully obvious what happened this season.
The problem with the team is a lack of a good second scoring line, and a lot of that has to do with the failures of Bennett. That would fix the scoring depth. If he had been as advertised we’d have two great scoring pairs in Gaudreau/Monahan and Tkachuk/Bennett. Add what ever RW in there, Wouldn’t need to be great ones with those pairs, Ferland is good enough for one line and maybe you would have made a trade for another.. If we had that good second scoring line then Backlund/Frolik go down as your third scoring line, elite checking line. That would be a contending forward group. When did Bennett and Janko ‘figure it out’? They didn’t. Bennett was bad all year except for one month. Janko has glimpses but still has a ways to go. Bennett not living up to his draft position, at least so far, is the biggest reason this team hasn’t taken the next step. I think the coaches bear a lot of that blame, at least I hope so otherwise this is a very hard problem to solve.
The problem with the team is a lack of a good second scoring line, and a lot of that has to do with the failures of Bennett. That would fix the scoring depth. If he had been as advertised we’d have two great scoring pairs in Gaudreau/Monahan and Tkachuk/Bennett. Add what ever RW in there, Wouldn’t need to be great ones with those pairs, Ferland is good enough for one line and maybe you would have made a trade for another.. If we had that good second scoring line then Backlund/Frolik go down as your third scoring line, elite checking line. That would be a contending forward group. When did Bennett and Janko ‘figure it out’? They didn’t. Bennett was bad all year except for one month. Janko has glimpses but still has a ways to go. Bennett not living up to his draft position, at least so far, is the biggest reason this team hasn’t taken the next step. I think the coaches bear a lot of that blame, at least I hope so otherwise this is a very hard problem to solve.
I don't disagree that having Bennett perform like a true top 6 player would help the team.
I don't think he is the only issue though. The forward group as a whole is just going to have to be a lot better for the Flames to compete. Bennett is one of about 4-5 problems.
) saying that Bennett was going to be better than Monahan and was projecting to push him down to be the 2C spot. How times have changed
