Will Flames make the playoffs?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

trashing their starting goalie is painting the Flames in a better light?

Vladar has played 19 games
Markstrom 33

Its hardly a small sample size, Christ they might be even if things continue

If the Flames get average or better goaltending they will make the playoffs...if they don't they probably won't.

It boggles the mind that people don't realize how much goaltending matters to winning and losing in the NHL, coaches joke they should change the name from Hockey to Goaltending.

Markstom has absolutely blown 4-5 games that would have been wins with AVERAGE goaltending not even good goaltending...its not like I am saying "he could have stolen 4 more" he legit gave them away

Well you avoided my question about your 111 point pace claim. If you looked into it, I think you'd find one major factor contributing to the better record under Vladar which is clearly not sustainable.

But as for your rant about needing better goaltending, maybe read what people are posting. Couldn't agree more that the club needs better and more consistent goaltending. Why do you think they keep trotting out Markstrom? Because he has shown he can play at an elite level and you want to give him very chance to get back there. As good as Vladar has been, he hasn't yet shown to be much above average.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly.

And the numbers support that.

Most teams that are struggling to make the playoffs probably can say the same thing except maybe Ilses and Preds

To me the struggling first line (Huberdeau) and PP are probably as much a factor

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well you avoided my question about your 111 point pace claim. If you looked into it, I think you'd find one major factor contributing to the better record under Vladar which is clearly not sustainable.

But as for your rant about needing better goaltending, maybe read what people are posting. Couldn't agree more that the club needs better and more consistent goaltending. Why do you think they keep trotting out Markstrom? Because he has shown he can play at an elite level and you want to give him very chance to get back there. As good as Vladar has been, he hasn't yet shown to be much above average.

I'm not avoiding anything...the Flames have been substantially better with the average goaltending is the point. Complain about anything else if you like, the fact remains if they were getting NHL average goaltending from both guys we wouldn't be questioning playoffs. The "eye test" looks worse to people because so many chances end up in the back of the net...Flames don't allow a lot. You are ignoring the actual statistics and making up others because you so badly want to prove the Flames have been bad defensively for some reason. They haven't.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Most teams that are struggling to make the playoffs probably can say the same thing except maybe Ilses and Preds

To me the struggling first line (Huberdeau) and PP are probably as much a factor

Most teams are within 5 spots ... that is rank in points % and rank in xGF%

The Flames are -14 between the two.

Goaltending and the PP is killing them.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why would I stop? It's been pretty consistent. You come at things the same way over and over again.

We don't have to call it a bias though if you don't want.

I'm happy to say it's possible that the models themselves are easier on teams than goaltenders, or that goalie models (gsaa) are tough on all goaltenders.

But I won't make the leap that the Flames specifically have found a way to give up more high danger that isn't registered than other teams. That's a huge leap in my mind, and it's completely unfounded.

I don't blame you for not wanting to watch every game to prove it though!

Impossible to argue with the bolded. But it sure feels like some of the losses this year can be attributed to serious defensive gaffes. And that Flames don't often win the odd man rush contest. Now maybe dino claims I am watching some other game by feeling this way but I'm not so quick to dismiss it.

That's not to absolve goaltending. It seems to me that this team needs to win by outchancing the opposition by a decent margin. They just don't have the guys who can bury low/medium chances. So even if chances are a push, that's probably not good enough.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm not avoiding anything...the Flames have been substantially better with the average goaltending is the point. Complain about anything else if you like, the fact remains if they were getting NHL average goaltending from both guys we wouldn't be questioning playoffs. The "eye test" looks worse to people because so many chances end up in the back of the net...Flames don't allow a lot. You are ignoring the actual statistics and making up others because you so badly want to prove the Flames have been bad defensively for some reason. They haven't.

Nope don't badly want to prove anything. But I will ask you again why the Flames are on an 111 point pace with Vladar?

Does average goaltending help move this team up from 9th and out of the playoffs? Of course it does.

Does it put them into elite contender status and on a Conference winning pace? Not in my opinion.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Impossible to argue with the bolded. But it sure feels like some of the losses this year can be attributed to serious defensive gaffes. And that Flames don't often win the odd man rush contest. Now maybe dino claims I am watching some other game by feeling this way but I'm not so quick to dismiss it.

That's not to absolve goaltending. It seems to me that this team needs to win by outchancing the opposition by a decent margin. They just don't have the guys who can bury low/medium chances. So even if chances are a push, that's probably not good enough.

I'd agree.

The goaltending isn't even bad, per say ... it's just average.

And the Flames ability to finish seems to be below average.

Predictable result of a lot of one goal losses.

[JohnnyB]

Markstrom has been bad, but the Flames are also on pace to score around 35 fewer goals this season than last season. What pace would they be on with 35 more goals this year? That's a pretty similar number of goals as Markstrom's poor play projects to cost the team over the course of the season.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Nope don't badly want to prove anything. But I will ask you again why the Flames are on an 111 point pace with Vladar?

Does average goaltending help move this team up from 9th and out of the playoffs? Of course it does.

Does it put them into elite contender status and on a Conference winning pace? Not in my opinion.

Division winning pace...4-5 wins

Anyway we dont need to argue about this for a week