Daylight Saving Time

[Gondi Stylez]

Some of the comments here are....interesting! I highly recommend folks watch Explained on Netflix - the episode titled Time.

[Roughneck]

The obvious solution is to create our own, Alberta Proud!, timezone that's half an hour between Mountain and Pacific time.



Problem solved!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Other than scientists, I have literally never heard anyone mention circadian rhythms. I think Pepsi was joking and you took it seriously.

Been mentioned 10 times in this thread, including this post. 3 by you and 1 by Pepsi. So 5 before today.

Well who knows, maybe I'm out to lunch. I mean 49.9% of voters agreed with me, so I can't be entirely on my own here.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I also think solar noon should be as close to noon on our clocks as possible, as often as possible.

Why?

If solar noon lined up with actual noon, we would have a 3:45am sunrise and a 8:15pm sunset on the solstice. What good does that accomplish? At the equinoxes we would have the sunrise at 6am and set at 6pm. On all but the longest days of the year we would have no useable daylight after work.

Personally I think solar noon should be as close to the "middle" of most peoples days as possible. If the average person gets up at 6am and goes to bed at 10pm it would be best to line up solar noon with 2pm so we can enjoy as much sun as possible while we're awake.

[mrkajz44]

I think people are vastly overestimating how much evening sun they'd actually use in the winter. I also think people are vastly underestimating the impact of very late sunrises for months on end on their mental well being.

We are already on a time zone where we are getting light later than normal solar noon. Not sure why people wanted to further exasperate that.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Other than scientists, I have literally never heard anyone mention circadian rhythms. I think Pepsi was joking and you took it seriously.

Been mentioned 10 times in this thread, including this post. 3 by you and 1 by Pepsi. So 5 before today.

Nah, I agree with Slava. I just picked a phrase. Biological clocks, solar noons, it's all jibber jabber nobody has cared about until this vote. People binge Squid Game until midnight and then cry about what time the sun comes up because it's against the natural order of our ancient ancestors or whatever. People don't drink enough water, sit too much, enjoy drugs and alcohol, chow down on McDonalds, drive polluting trucks, etc etc etc and you propose that sunrise changes for a few months of the year and suddenly they're all granola naturopaths concerned about the science of the body and achieving ultimate peace with the sun.

Y'all dumb.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nah, I agree with Slava. I just picked a phrase. Biological clocks, solar noons, it's all jibber jabber nobody has cared about until this vote. People binge Squid Game until midnight and then cry about what time the sun comes up because it's against the natural order of our ancient ancestors or whatever. People don't drink enough water, sit too much, enjoy drugs and alcohol, chow down on McDonalds, drive polluting trucks, etc etc etc and you propose that sunrise changes for a few months of the year and suddenly they're all granola naturopaths concerned about the science of the body and achieving ultimate peace with the sun.

Y'all dumb.

Or adding structural changes which cause these issues to become worse isn’t a good idea. We need our structures as good as possible so that we have the room to behave like idiots when given the choice.

This actually shouldn’t be a referendum question though experts should get together between the 2 non switch options and then we follow what everyone else does on switch / no switch.

What’s interesting is that places nearer to the equator due get dark year round between 6 and 7 and sun rises between 6 and 7. Those places don’t seem to be concerned with evening light to do activities to sacrifice morning light. I think we associate darkness with cold so we have an aversion to dark activities whereas places with nicer weather don’t have this association and nightlife happens in the dark.

Today is a good example of a day that would have been made better on MST. It was dusk at 8:00 today. Moving that to 7 would have been much better.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

Or adding structural changes which cause these issues to become worse isn’t a good idea. We need our structures as good as possible so that we have the room to behave like idiots when given the choice.

This actually shouldn’t be a referendum question though experts should get together between the 2 non switch options and then we follow what everyone else does on switch / no switch.

What’s interesting is that places nearer to the equator due get dark year round between 6 and 7 and sun rises between 6 and 7. Those places don’t seem to be concerned with evening light to do activities to sacrifice morning light. I think we associate darkness with cold so we have an aversion to dark activities whereas places with nicer weather don’t have this association and nightlife happens in the dark.

Today is a good example of a day that would have been made better on MST. It was dusk at 8:00 today. Moving that to 7 would have been much better.

Better for who? I'm working in my basement, it doesn't make any difference. But after work I like to go outside and get an hour of sun. So by your change, I'd lose that.

But the point is, everyone has different schedules and ideas as to what suits them best. Saying "this is better" only works for people who have similar needs as you.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nah, I agree with Slava. I just picked a phrase. Biological clocks, solar noons, it's all jibber jabber nobody has cared about until this vote. People binge Squid Game until midnight and then cry about what time the sun comes up because it's against the natural order of our ancient ancestors or whatever. People don't drink enough water, sit too much, enjoy drugs and alcohol, chow down on McDonalds, drive polluting trucks, etc etc etc and you propose that sunrise changes for a few months of the year and suddenly they're all granola naturopaths concerned about the science of the body and achieving ultimate peace with the sun.

Y'all dumb.

You guys are passionate, I’ll give you that. If it made you this angry, why only act now? Funny you call other people out by exaggerating their points but before now, I’d never heard any of the arguments you keep whining about. It’s weird to feign ignorance about the real reasons people don’t want it to change.

But hey, if this is that much of a dealbreaker, keep fighting. I don’t know anyone that actually cares or talks about time change or time zones. We could change to eastern time for all I care. I work eastern hours anyways.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Better for who? I'm working in my basement, it doesn't make any difference. But after work I like to go outside and get an hour of sun. So by your change, I'd lose that.

But the point is, everyone has different schedules and ideas as to what suits them best. Saying "this is better" only works for people who have similar needs as you.

Pepsi’s statement was that people don’t get benefit from morning light because they are up before anyway in the winter. Today is a good example of a day with opportunity to benefit from morning light. It’s days like today where the actual choice matters the 6-8 weeks post equinox.

Anyone using Solstice values for this discussion isn’t thinking about the real impacts in the 6weeks before and after the equinox’s. It doesn’t really matter outside those times as there is either too little or too much light.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

You guys are passionate, I’ll give you that. If it made you this angry, why only act now? Funny you call other people out by exaggerating their points but before now, I’d never heard any of the arguments you keep whining about. It’s weird to feign ignorance about the real reasons people don’t want it to change.

But hey, if this is that much of a dealbreaker, keep fighting. I don’t know anyone that actually cares or talks about time change or time zones. We could change to eastern time for all I care. I work eastern hours anyways.

I also work eastern hours (mainly), so that part doesn't matter. I'm not super upset with this or anything, and it's no more effort for me to pop into this thread than to have my say on Jack Eichel. It's not even that it made me angry. I supported a move to a set time through the year when Thomas Dang (NDP) put it forward a few years ago, and this time. But life goes on.

[You Need a Thneed]

Why does Solar noon have to align with 12pm on the clocks? Obviously our time is arbitrary.

As said by others, why wouldn’t we want solar noon closer to the middle of the time we are actually awake?

For most people that well after 12 noon. Well after 2pm for me, probably closer to 3 pm.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Why does Solar noon have to align with 12pm on the clocks? Obviously our time is arbitrary.

As said by others, why wouldn’t we want solar noon closer to the middle of the time we are actually awake?

For most people that well after 12 noon. Well after 2pm for me, probably closer to 3 pm.

Exactly. I have morning tasks, afternoon tasks, and evening tasks. It makes sense to have more daylight after 12:00, because I do more things from 12:00 until I go to bed than I do from when I wake up until 12:00.

[Aegypticus]

I voted no because I heard a couple different experts on the subject say that other places that changed to later sunrises and sunsets in the winter had a bunch of problems and changed back within a couple years. I would personally prefer to stay on winter time because I get up late (comparatively) anyways, but swapping and then swapping back sounded like a waste of time and money to me.

I didn’t look into it any more than that. Maybe the people I saw on the Internet are wrong?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Why does Solar noon have to align with 12pm on the clocks? Obviously our time is arbitrary.

As said by others, why wouldn’t we want solar noon closer to the middle of the time we are actually awake?

For most people that well after 12 noon. Well after 2pm for me, probably closer to 3 pm.

I think the gist of it is morning sun triggers the body to start it’s day and melatonin starts being produced when the light goes away but takes time. Think of pre-electricity equatorial regions.

Did they get up with the sun and go to sleep after dark or did they get up in the dark, then also go to sleep after dark. I believe you are making a false assumption that equa distribution of daylight across waking hours is natural.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

The obvious solution is to create our own, Alberta Proud!, timezone that's half an hour between Mountain and Pacific time.



Problem solved!

Newfie's of the west!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by kevman

If the average person gets up at 6am and goes to bed at 10pm

The average person goes to bed at 10 pm? 12:30 am myself.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

Maybe the people I saw on the Internet are wrong?

Blasphemy!

[81MC]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Why does Solar noon have to align with 12pm on the clocks? Obviously our time is arbitrary.

As said by others, why wouldn’t we want solar noon closer to the middle of the time we are actually awake?

For most people that well after 12 noon. Well after 2pm for me, probably closer to 3 pm.

Because ‘noon’ would be different for everyone, and then it would have to be tied to something arbitrary and not rooted in anything. At least ‘noon’ now is tied to something (fairly) consistent across people. It doesn’t matter in the slightest whether you work 6-6 or 9-5 or 1-9. The ‘time we are actually awake’ is a bizarre standard.

[Hack&Lube]

I have a solution, let's change all our jobs to farm hours.

We are only permitted to work when there is a daylight!