I'll try my best to argue about something less trivial next time.
A shorter version of the, "How many of us does it take to change a lightbulb without getting in trouble for lack of permit" joke (answer: 2 of us at least, and we haven't started yet.) might be great.
Although I really do want to see the proposed taser fight. What kind of city permits and other things do we need to make such a thing a reality? I'm assuming a liquor license is a must.
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Although I really do want to see the proposed taser fight. What kind of city permits and other things do we need to make such a thing a reality? I'm assuming a liquor license is a must.
Nothing, we'll just disguise it as a protest against overbearing government codes.
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Hey Timun, weren't you the dummy I smashed earlier with data proving why wagos are a terrible connection type? But you still doubled down on them being good?
Yep I remember now, I had data posted showing it was 10-25% higher resistance for a wago compared to a wire nut and even then you didn't admit you were wrong. I should have guessed your dumb ass would have popped up again lol.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
Last edited by PaperBagger'14; 03-16-2022 at 04:25 PM.
How many engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
Trick question. They can't. They are too paralyzed in pedantic debate over meaningless minutia, and when unable to make a compelling argument that stands on it's own, credentials are flashed as if that changes anything.
(This display is exactly the reason why my iron ring lived on a dresser, fell off, and likely ended up a landfill via my vacuum, and not on my finger)
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Hey Timun, weren't you the dummy I smashed earlier with data proving why wagos are a terrible connection type? But you still doubled down on them being good?
Yep I remember now, I had data posted showing it was 10-25% higher resistance for a wago compared to a wire nut and even then you didn't admit you were wrong. I should have guessed your dumb ass would have popped up again lol.
Hahahahaha, that was YOU?! I wished I'd remembered that yesterday, then I wouldn't have wasted all this time on interacting with you. Then, just as now, you couldn't back up your assertions.
Had to go searching through this thread to find the exchange, but here's the meat of it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14
The tensile strength of each type has its limitations, if you're using wagos to connect to a load with a modest amount of current flowing as well as vibration (aka a small transformer) they operate worse mechanically than a wire nut. Tug test they are probably better but that isn't very relevant as you'll never be tugging on a wire once it's installed.
The difference is huge in electrical connection. Take this video for example:
In this video, he uses only 1A of current for the test (he should be using closer to 20A to actually stress the connection for a useful result). Long story short he gets 6.8 mOhm of resistance at 1A for the wago and 6.5mOhm for a wire nut.
Those are useful to know, but had he used 20A and measured watts lost (aka heat generated) from the connection using the formula P=I^2 X R.
P=20^2 x 6.8 = 2.720W lost from the wago + wire
P=20^2 x 6.5 = 2.600W lost from the wire nut + wire
This equates to a 5% increase in heat generated by a wago. Heat related failure is also not linear when it comes to equipment lifespan, its actually exponential so a 5% difference is substantial.
Of note, he didn't strip back enough on the wire nut to meet the manufacturers spec. He also didn't pre twist the wires which is a manufacturer spec but is not consistent with best trade practices. The value of 6.5mOhm could be dropped even further with having a larger contact area and pre twisting the wires.
This is all napkin math and there will be some rounding errors here, but for all intents and purposes it demonstrates my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timun
If anything that video proves that the difference between wire nuts and wagos is actually pretty much insignificant. Certainly not definitive; there's more variability in resistance due to how the alligator clips were making contact with the other ends of the wires.
Taking your back-of-the-napkin calculations further, a 20 A load on a 120 V circuit draws 2400 W, so the difference between a wire nut and a wago is
[(2402.72 / 2402.6) - 1] * 100 = 0.005%
Respectfully: whoop-de-####ing-do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14
If you'd like to have a chat with me about electrical testing and maintenance feel free to send me a PM. As I explained the video was flawed from the start but I would be happy to teach you why wago's are bad and I could even get the test equipment from my work and show you why they are inferior. Balls in your court homeslice
Quote:
Originally Posted by timun
Why PMs? Feel free to show us all.
And that's where it ended. I should have remembered you, given how quick you were to defer to private messages rather than respond publicly. You never followed up, probably because you feared you'd be embarrassed when push comes to shove.
Again, nothing but stereotypical electrician responses from you. You've done things the way you've always done them, anything that deviates is "unsafe/dangerous/etc", and you absolutely cannot stand someone—anyone—telling you otherwise.
You're plainly out of your depth when it comes to anything you haven't been taught. Anyone who actually understands the technical nuances would see the last day's worth of posts from your end as a stream of contradictory gobbledy####, because you're ignorant as to how things actually work. Your posts are not unlike the rantings of a "freeman on the land", who strings together a few official-sounding terms without understanding what it is you're ham-fistedly trying to explain away.
I won't go as far as to say you're dangerously unqualified, as you have to me, but your knowledge is quite obviously limited. The self-professed "resident CalgaryPuck electrical expert" is a case of the emperor having no clothes. I freely admit I've been a condescending ###hole to you, but you absolutely deserve it given the way you've treated me with scorn and disdain. Again, I would have let it all slide if not for you ####ting all over me to protect your fragile ego. At that point it was on. Sadly anyone who doesn't understand the technical nuances isn't really going to understand how shallow your pool of knowledge is once it was really pushed, and just how badly you got dunked on. You haven't a clue how the legal framework around our codes and standards work, you haven't a clue how they're enforced, and really in retrospect this should have been abundantly clear when you suggested something as prima facie absolutely-####ing-re####ed as "technically changing a light bulb requires a permit".
All in all, I'll leave everyone else with this advice: when it comes to PaperBagger'14 and his advice in this thread, you're probably safe to follow it. Buddy is almost certainly a residential or light commercial electrician, and he seems to know the electrical code well enough for dispensing advice to DIYers. If you are unsure of what you're doing, when it comes to any home improvement like electrical work where you could end up hurting yourself or others quite badly, please go seek the assistance of a licenced tradesperson. (although personally given how much of an ######bag PaperBagger'14 is I would suggest you steer clear of him if you need an electrician)
Otherwise I'm going to put PaperBagger on ignore, which we probably should have mutually done to each other a while ago as this last few pages aren't really helpful to any of you. I admit I let my ego get the best of me, and should have ceased responding to him earlier when it became clear to me that he doesn't know half as much as he thinks he does. Sorry for the diversion everyone, we now return to your originally scheduled programming.
You actually got one thing correct in that entire post, and that's that I am an electrician. Started my trade in 2006-2009, a few years after that I did my EET at SAIT, immediately followed by the bridge program and got my engineering degree from UVic.
Since then I began doing field level testing on high voltage systems, specializing in P&C work. Long story short my job is testing complex relays (buss/line/xfmr differentials, distance relays etc). This high voltage testing gave me an in to get my power system electrician journeyman ticket as well.
While I don't think you're a bad guy, I highly dislike your lack of understanding code, I dislike how you don't understand electrical maintenance and testing (wagos vs wire nuts, this is literally my job to understand why they are ####).
I've had a number of people ask me to do work for them from this site and it's not my bag anymore, but I'm always glad to give advice. I would highly advise anyone listening to Timun for advice to not do that, he doesn't have a construction background and a fledgling understanding of code and electrical practices.
As a final kiss my ass, here's 50% of the $500 in the bet. Let's see if you'll do the same.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
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I don’t think they’d be able to agree on the voltage or amperage level (whatever the correct is) that would be fair. We’d have to have PepsiFree decide after he takes their wallets.
Ahhh, I'm in my happy place with this thread. Timun and paperbagger...you guys rule and I swear I'm your biggest fan. I'd love a whole thread dedicated to you guys vehemently disagreeing on the craziest #### ever.
As for the argument, I think you're both right. There's no way that something that feels so right could ever be wrong.
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Ahhh, I'm in my happy place with this thread. Timun and paperbagger...you guys rule and I swear I'm your biggest fan. I'd love a whole thread dedicated to you guys vehemently disagreeing on the craziest #### ever.
As for the argument, I think you're both right. There's no way that something that feels so right could ever be wrong.
Couldn’t agree more! I just love the conflict, as long as I’m not involved. It’s fantastic.
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Pulled the basement toilet off to replace the wax seal and turns out the metal flange that is bolted to the concrete is bent. Ugh. I've looked at a couple possible fixes but I may wave off and call a plumber.
