|
View Poll Results: What is your pricincipal tool to analyse hockey players?
|
|
The Eye Test
|
   
|
111 |
85.38% |
|
Shot metrics like Corsi
|
  
|
19 |
14.62% |
10-04-2017, 10:59 AM
|
#1
|
|
Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
|
Q&A With Athletic Calgary's Kent Wilson on Flame's Analytics
Kent Wilson will be logging on in an hour looking for feedback and comments on his recent interview with Chris Snow, the Flames head of hockey analytics.
Analytics have certainly become more mainstream in the past two hockey seasons, but continue to be a lightning rod of opinion for traditionalists and modern hockey fans.
Kent published his article a few days ago and was slated to come on on Monday but we pushed it back due to Jagr mania which gripped the city on Monday and Tuesday.
He literally had to pare down his article by 80% to get it on to the Athletic, so there's much more to drill down into then made it to press.
Here's the link.
Athletic Calgary: Q&A With Chris Snow
Please play nice and fire the guy some good questions.
Thanks Calgarypuck.
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:12 PM
|
#2
|
|
#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vancouver
|
Feels like advertising to me...
If he wants the opinion of this forum on an article, we shouldn't have to pay to see it. I appreciate that The Athletic is trying something different, but to come to a free site and plug paywalled content is a little much.
Hey Metrognome, you release the article for free to CP and you'll have more chances to receive feedback and maybe even hook a few people into subscriptions...
__________________
Death by 4th round picks.
|
|
|
|
|
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to thymebalm For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:14 PM
|
#3
|
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thymebalm
Feels like advertising to me...
If he wants the opinion of this forum on an article, we shouldn't have to pay to see it. I appreciate that The Athletic is trying something different, but to come to a free site and plug paywalled content is a little much.
Hey Metrognome, you release the article for free to CP and you'll have more chances to receive feedback and maybe even hook a few people into subscriptions...
|
You don't have to participate.
|
|
|
|
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ashasx For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:15 PM
|
#4
|
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
|
Can we have a third option to the poll - which is using a bit of both.
I like the new advanced metrics but do think that they need to be combined with the Eye Test.
Also don't think that just watching the games is good enough - because there are personal bias and sometimes we can watch effort and mistake it for actual production (ie. Kris Russell).
Personally I don't think I can actually commit to one or the other - I like to use them in combination.
|
|
|
|
|
The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
|
automaton 3,
Calgary4LIfe,
corporatejay,
cral12,
EldrickOnIce,
Eric Vail,
gallione11,
GreatWhiteEbola,
Hey Connor, It's Mess,
kkaleR,
KootenayFlamesFan,
mikeecho,
Mony,
Robbob,
Samonadreau,
Savvy27,
TheIronMaiden,
tknez16
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:17 PM
|
#5
|
|
Franchise Player
|
How does he think of the Flames analytic package in comparison to the analytics departments of other teams around the league?
__________________
Until the Flames make the Western Finals again, this signature shall remain frozen.
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:20 PM
|
#6
|
|
#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Richmond, BC
|
What is his opinion on media stat guys like Yost and Cullen?
__________________
"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable." - Carl Sagan
Freedom consonant with responsibility.
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:22 PM
|
#7
|
|
Franchise Player
|
We saw during the Eakins era in Edmonton that certain players looked like they were playing for Corsi rather than playing to win.
Do they adjust their modelling when the eye test is saying that a guy is out there to pad a stat?
Example, rather than flipping the puck deep for a line change or to enable a teammate to go fight for it Hall would float a lazy writer from outside the blueline.
Not helping the team succeed in any stretch
__________________
"OOOOOOHHHHHHH those Russians" - Boney M
|
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to killer_carlson For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:23 PM
|
#8
|
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
|
I keep mis-reading "Calgary's Kent Wilson"
|
|
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GioforPM For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:23 PM
|
#9
|
|
Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
You don't have to participate.
|
He can still have and voice his opinion.
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:25 PM
|
#10
|
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
|
I'm not really in the 'analytic camp' so I wont have much to contribute, but I'm looking forward to hearing his opinion.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:26 PM
|
#11
|
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
|
I head he was a nerd that knew nothing about hockey.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:28 PM
|
#12
|
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
He can still have and voice his opinion.
|
And I'm saying complaining about seeing this as advertising is odd. Open the thread or don't. Its existence doesn't negatively impact you.
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:32 PM
|
#13
|
|
#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Richmond, BC
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
And I'm saying complaining about seeing this as advertising is odd. Open the thread or don't. Its existence doesn't negatively impact you.
|
We all opened the thread. It wasn't obvious from the main forum screen that the thread content was behind a paywall.
I think the guy has a legit beef. I just think the rest of the OP's content makes up for the paywall stuff.
__________________
"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable." - Carl Sagan
Freedom consonant with responsibility.
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:33 PM
|
#14
|
|
Franchise Player
|
All of the Athletics content is behind a paywall. Who is surprised?
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:41 PM
|
#15
|
|
That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
|
Jesus people, this is why we can't have nice things. If you don't want to pay, leave. There are lots of things you have to pay for that are discussed on this forum, including the tv broadcast to tonights game. I don't hear people whining that SN isn't free.
You aren't required to pay to ask a question of the guy.
/rant
As for the thread, I'm very curious to hear what Kent has to say on this topic and how analytics have changed the way teams evaluate and put together their rosters.
|
|
|
|
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Cecil Terwilliger For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:42 PM
|
#16
|
|
#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vancouver
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
And I'm saying complaining about seeing this as advertising is odd. Open the thread or don't. Its existence doesn't negatively impact you.
|
The movement of paywalling hockey content does impact me negatively.
I've contributed my comments and feedback to many of Kent's articles over his tenure at FN - since he's moved behind the paywall I haven't been able to interact on that level with a writer for a team I'm a fan of.
Now I'm being asked to comment again, but this time I have to pay him first.
I thought it was worth pointing out.
__________________
Death by 4th round picks.
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:42 PM
|
#17
|
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
I think the guy has a legit beef. I just think the rest of the OP's content makes up for the paywall stuff.
|
Can't Bingo do whatever he wants on his site?
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:45 PM
|
#18
|
|
First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
Can't Bingo do whatever he wants on his site?
|
Yeah, he can even eat as much CDC paste as he wants!
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
|
|
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:45 PM
|
#19
|
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
|
I for one have been skeptical about advanced stats by in large due to their incompleteness.
It doesn't take into account players who do certain jobs. Take Hamonic. He's a primarily defensive minded defender and his job is to contain and limit the other team's generating offense. His job isn't to create offense. Yet according to the advanced stats, he's mediocre.
The problem is that they try to over simplify things that are not easy to quantify. It isn't like baseball where there is a defined series of outcomes based off each pitch.
Once advanced stats improve more, then it'll make things easier. Until then I trust my own eyes when watching a player/team then the underlying stats.
Certainly, it does help to identify players that stand out as being particularly bad. However, even then it doesn't help with context. Tanner Glass is a horrid player according to the advanced stats. However, that too is not his game. His game is to make sure that other people don't do stupid things on the ice and to get other players off their game. Yes, the team might be worse when he's on the ice, but name any team that has three positive corsi 4th line 13th forward players.
__________________
Fireside Chat - The #1 Flames Fan Podcast - FiresideChat.ca
|
|
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Caged Great For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
10-04-2017, 12:49 PM
|
#20
|
|
Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
Also don't think that just watching the games is good enough - because there are personal bias and sometimes we can watch effort and mistake it for actual production (ie. Kris Russell).
Personally I don't think I can actually commit to one or the other - I like to use them in combination.
|
Kris Russell was the turning point for me.
I wanted to eliminate analytics because the guy was a warrior, but when you get every player on a team getting out shot (attempts) more so with him then without him you have to start looking at it.
He gets himself in trouble (contributes) more often, and then does his very best to dig himself out.
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:27 AM.
|
|
