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Old 09-03-2017, 01:21 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by 18YrOldSamBennett View Post
Don't write off Goldobin. I hate the Canucks but that kid oozes skill, just stupid amounts of speed and talent. I think he gets a chance in camp and stays up potentially playing alongside the Sedin's or Sutter for depth scoring.

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Thanks, added him as depth.
Signing veterans is going to limit the number of prospects they'll be able to graduate. I think if I were a Canucks fan, I'd prefer to gamble on some of the prospects, rather than fill positions with stop-gaps. And perhaps, being the Sedins final year, you'd think they'd want to expose the young guys to them as much as possible.
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:19 AM   #42
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Thanks, added him as depth.
Signing veterans is going to limit the number of prospects they'll be able to graduate. I think if I were a Canucks fan, I'd prefer to gamble on some of the prospects, rather than fill positions with stop-gaps. And perhaps, being the Sedins final year, you'd think they'd want to expose the young guys to them as much as possible.
I agree completely

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Old 09-03-2017, 10:21 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by monkeyman View Post
Thanks, added him as depth.
Signing veterans is going to limit the number of prospects they'll be able to graduate. I think if I were a Canucks fan, I'd prefer to gamble on some of the prospects, rather than fill positions with stop-gaps. And perhaps, being the Sedins final year, you'd think they'd want to expose the young guys to them as much as possible.
Theres a difference between 'blooding youth' and being thrown to the wolves.

Just throwing kids into games may not be a viable solution. We know this. The Oilers did it for a decade.

As for the Sedins, you might be right, but maybe you dont want your next generation of players anywhere near a couple of vets on a bad team playing out the string.

The real travesty here is that the Sedins are going to ride into the sunset on a team that would stand a good chance of finishing Dead Fing Last if it werent for Vegas and Colorado.
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Old 09-03-2017, 12:14 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by monkeyman View Post
Thanks, added him as depth.
Signing veterans is going to limit the number of prospects they'll be able to graduate. I think if I were a Canucks fan, I'd prefer to gamble on some of the prospects, rather than fill positions with stop-gaps. And perhaps, being the Sedins final year, you'd think they'd want to expose the young guys to them as much as possible.
Prospects need time to develop in an atmosphere where they aren't thrown to the wolves. This is a lot like the signing of Hudler in 2012, it provides time for the prospects to develop in a less stressful environment. It is a one year contract so it doesn't stifle development in the future, it just allows them to develop on their own time - rather than forcing them into playing above their heads in an environment where they demand victories.

At the same time, teams need to provide something for the fans to cheer for, if you roll with 4 lines of AHL players, it will get a better draft pick, but it won't get fans into the seats.

As for the Sedins, they are players who developed on their own time, they were behind Naslund, Bertuzzi and Morrison until 2005-06 where they blossomed into legitimate first line players. It just takes time, not everyone can be a McDavid/Matthews who can dominate at 18-19 years old.
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Old 09-03-2017, 12:17 PM   #45
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As for the Sedins, you might be right, but maybe you dont want your next generation of players anywhere near a couple of vets on a bad team playing out the string.
This would be true if there were any indications that the Sedins were a negative influence in the locker room as Iginla was rumoured to be. They have been consummate professionals who have been leaders on and off the ice. If there were players who I would want as mentors for young talent, the Sedins would be near the top of the list.... incidentally Vanek would be near the bottom.
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Old 09-03-2017, 03:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Theres a difference between 'blooding youth' and being thrown to the wolves.

Just throwing kids into games may not be a viable solution. We know this. The Oilers did it for a decade.

As for the Sedins, you might be right, but maybe you dont want your next generation of players anywhere near a couple of vets on a bad team playing out the string.

The real travesty here is that the Sedins are going to ride into the sunset on a team that would stand a good chance of finishing Dead Fing Last if it werent for Vegas and Colorado.
Other than Boeser, who's all but guaranteed a spot, these are 23-24 year old guys were talking about here. You don't want to throw them to the wolves, but what do you thinks going to happen next year? At that point, you'll have no choice but to throw them to the wolves, and and limited guys left to shoulder the burden. Unless you think guys like Gagner and Eriksson are going do it. They had the right idea toward the end of the year last year, we saw them giving these guys opportunities. Now this year, instead of moving forward with that plan, they go and sign Gagner, Burmistrov and now Vanek. One or two to fill gaps and can play for a few years sure, but if you're going to gamble, do it with an eye to the future. Vaneks best years are past him and his presence offers little to no upside to the long term success of the team.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:43 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard View Post
This would be true if there were any indications that the Sedins were a negative influence in the locker room as Iginla was rumoured to be. They have been consummate professionals who have been leaders on and off the ice. If there were players who I would want as mentors for young talent, the Sedins would be near the top of the list.... incidentally Vanek would be near the bottom.
Oh. I hadnt realized that they'd played a few seasons on a terrible team on the last year of their contracts and what could be the end of their careers, at least with Vancouver.

Come on, I know I dont have to spell this out. That was then and this is now. I have no quarrel with the Sedins, but anyone who is on their Victory Lap (end of career) and playing for a team that is, quite frankly, going to be bad.

This year is going to be an aberration, so its hard to point to past behaviour as anything truly indicative.

You are right, they have never indicated this, but they've also never been on a lottery team at the end of their careers. I'm not saying they're going to phone it in, I'm just saying their attitudes may change. Thats it.

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Other than Boeser, who's all but guaranteed a spot, these are 23-24 year old guys were talking about here. You don't want to throw them to the wolves, but what do you thinks going to happen next year? At that point, you'll have no choice but to throw them to the wolves, and and limited guys left to shoulder the burden. Unless you think guys like Gagner and Eriksson are going do it. They had the right idea toward the end of the year last year, we saw them giving these guys opportunities. Now this year, instead of moving forward with that plan, they go and sign Gagner, Burmistrov and now Vanek. One or two to fill gaps and can play for a few years sure, but if you're going to gamble, do it with an eye to the future. Vaneks best years are past him and his presence offers little to no upside to the long term success of the team.
Right, and I see where you're going and I get that. At some point these guys are going to have to sink or swim. But it cant be all of them at the same time.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:58 PM   #48
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To be fair I'd say Brock Boeser and Juolevi are considered blue chippers.Their most recent draft pick Petterson has very high skill too
I would actually take Juolevi out of their blue-chipper list. Good prospect, but closer to Valimaki or Kylington than to a true blue-chipper.

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Many of their most promising young players are of the middle six complimentary player variety. Not too many blue chippers in there.
Eh, IMO it's a rock-solid prospect pool:

Blue-Chippers
Boeser - Top line variety
Pettersson - Top line variety
Gaudette - Top six variety

A-Prospects
Demko - Starter variety
Juolevi - Top four variety

B-Prospects (middle six variety)
Goldobin
Lind
Dahlen
Virtanen

Maybe a bit weak at defense, but overall a good pool.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:08 AM   #49
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^ a lot of question marks and what ifs in there
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Old 09-04-2017, 01:09 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
I would actually take Juolevi out of their blue-chipper list. Good prospect, but closer to Valimaki or Kylington than to a true blue-chipper.



Eh, IMO it's a rock-solid prospect pool:

Blue-Chippers
Boeser - Top line variety
Pettersson - Top line variety
Gaudette - Top six variety

A-Prospects
Demko - Starter variety
Juolevi - Top four variety

B-Prospects (middle six variety)
Goldobin
Lind
Dahlen
Virtanen

Maybe a bit weak at defense, but overall a good pool.
Ive been to the last two rookie dev.camps held here on the island for the nucks and Boeser, although he is better than most players at the camp's, I dont see him as a Blue-Chipper by any means. He could go either way, Top 6 forward, Career Bottom 6 guy or a warm body in the AHL. He plays a tenacious style but he isnt an "energy" guy. He likes to play physical but doesnt really dominate anyone. He likes the puck but isnt a guy who strikes me as being a game breaker.
Also seen Juolevi live and I thought Jordan Subban was better and thats saying something because I dont think J.Subban is anything that special as well.

I love going to the Nucks dev Camp because is is eye opening to how far back that franchise is when it comes to player development, in my opinion.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:42 AM   #51
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That's a smart signing by Benning. Vanek is an easy flip.
Not so much. The book is out on this guy. Unless he has a 50-60 point season I don't think any GM is foolish enough to flip a respectable draft pick for him. For that AAV and term it's a no brainer fro the Canucks though.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:21 PM   #52
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So what are the Canucks lines looking like?

Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Baertschi Horvat Boeser
Vanek Granlund Gagner
Reid Sutter Burmistrov

Extras:
Dorsett
Gaunce
Megna
Virtanen
Goldobin
Wow, butter soft lineup
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:34 PM   #53
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Who has more points, Vanek or Bennett?
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:06 PM   #54
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Who has more points, Vanek or Bennett?
Each of them has 0 points so far this season.
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