[PGT] Flames lose another season opener

[CaptainCrunch]

If you respect a player too much your going to get burned elsewhere

In football if I double cover a superstar wide receiver its going to open other passing lanes. If I spy on a running back they're going to pop the ball over him into the empty space.

When Gretzky played a lot of teams gave him way to much respect, I'm not talking about health respect, and so they gave him time and space especially behind the net and he sat there and let the play develop.

With McDavid you have to respect his speed absolutely, but if you do something like say play a zone where you give him the initiative he's going to kill him.

When the Sedin's were successful teams sat back and let them do their cycle thing and someone would inevitably come free. Then teams began to get aggressive on their cycle and they lost a lot of effectiveness.

You want to show McDavid respect, but not so much respect that you lose your offensive initiative. That means to me that when he's on the ice you focus on your possession of the puck. Get it deep overload it and force him to either play defense or pin him on the boards.

And play your best skating defenseman high on him.

Plus an occasional shot to the face would help.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If you respect a player too much your going to get burned elsewhere

In football if I double cover a superstar wide receiver its going to open other passing lanes. If I spy on a running back they're going to pop the ball over him into the empty space.

When Gretzky played a lot of teams gave him way to much respect, I'm not talking about health respect, and so they gave him time and space especially behind the net and he sat there and let the play develop.

With McDavid you have to respect his speed absolutely, but if you do something like say play a zone where you give him the initiative he's going to kill him.

When the Sedin's were successful teams sat back and let them do their cycle thing and someone would inevitably come free. Then teams began to get aggressive on their cycle and they lost a lot of effectiveness.

You want to show McDavid respect, but not so much respect that you lose your offensive initiative. That means to me that when he's on the ice you focus on your possession of the puck. Get it deep overload it and force him to either play defense or pin him on the boards.

And play your best skating defenseman high on him.

Plus an occasional shot to the face would help.

True - this is happening to JG. Early on players were afraid to play him tight because they figured he'd beat them. He would then proceed to use the space effectively. Now they are playing him tighter and he's having a harder time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The problem with pure defense is that it often means no puck possession.
The best way to contain McDavid is to keep the puck away from him. If the Flames can keep McDavid in his own zone while the puck is passed around, he won't have many opportunities to score. The Flames should play very patiently and carefully while in the offensive zone.

When the Flames are in their own zone, I agree that it's important to play conservatively. Giordano did a great job of this in Wednesday's game. He managed to push McDavid into bad angles. That's about all you can do. If someone tries to outskate McDavid, they're going to lose.

This in my mind is exactly right, and it is the reason the Flames lost on Weds. The most frustrating part of that game was the fact that they couldn't complete passes to one another. When the Flames do play their game they are a good team that is capable of beating anyone, and that did not happen the other night, for whatever reason.

[dino7c]

As good as McDavid was they are who we thought they were. One guy scored all their goals, like expected the rest of the team was meh. Flames played right into their hands.

All that being said they were down by one goal in the 3rd, on the road, against the supposed cup contenders.

[Corral]

Sure sign of a superstar is when teams decide they have to change their game just to address his play. There has been nobody in the NHL of this calibre since Gretzky. Nobody ever developed an effective strategy to defend against Gretzky. It wasn't about defence. He simply slowed down with age.

If McDavid proves to be on that level, he's simply going to ensure the Oilers score at least 2 goals per game on average, and you have to go in knowing it will take at least 3 goals to win.

[Robo]

I'm still pissed how bad we were on weds although I shouldn't be surprised. That being said the Oilers better hope nothing happens to their big 3 or they are screwed I can't even recall a shift where the mcdavid line wasn't on the ice

[Wyguy]

Originally Posted by Corral

Sure sign of a superstar is when teams decide they have to change their game just to address his play. There has been nobody in the NHL of this calibre since Gretzky. Nobody ever developed an effective strategy to defend against Gretzky. It wasn't about defence. He simply slowed down with age.

If McDavid proves to be on that level, he's simply going to ensure the Oilers score at least 2 goals per game on average, and you have to go in knowing it will take at least 3 goals to win.

I think this is just flat out wrong. Teams make game plans for all teams with a player that has a unique game style. As it has already been mentioned JG did great the first couple seasons but the other teams have developed game plans and has made his life harder. And that is just one example.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Corral

Nobody ever developed an effective strategy to defend against Gretzky. It wasn't about defence. He simply slowed down with age.

Did you even watch hockey after 1995?!

The entire league changed towards a more defensive style of hockey.

[dino7c]

Wayne had 215 points....I would be surprised if McDavid had half of that this year.

Certainly not a knock, just saying one guy isn't gonna dominate like that again IMO. Sure he looked unstoppable against the Flames in game one. He looked just as unstoppable last season in game one. Ended up with 30 goals.

[Wyguy]

Well its simple, every other time we play them don't let him get any points...

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Wyguy

Well its simple, every other time we play them don't let him get any points...

You make it sound easy.

We just need to cover him better. As other people have mentioned, watch him at all times. Brodie looked away for one second, and McDavid was there to pot the first goal of the game.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Wayne had 215 points....I would be surprised if McDavid had half of that this year.

Certainly not a knock, just saying one guy isn't gonna dominate like that again IMO. Sure he looked unstoppable against the Flames in game one. He looked just as unstoppable last season in game one. Ended up with 30 goals.

Yeah - 30 is good but also ordinary in terms of goal scoring.

He can skate fast and deke out a goalie for a tally every odd game sure, but I don't see him able to shoot it like Ovie. A lot of goals come from around the crease for him it seems. Otherwise he's primarily a playmaker. Amongst the best today but hardly the best of all time..UNTIL he accomplishes the same feats.

Crosby put up 120 in the same year, when the game was more physical and the ability to grind it out in the o-zone was needed. So he has yet to even pass Sid's mark in a time when the game is more or less tailored to what he likes to do.

[DoubleK]

I don't think the Flames need to focus on stopping McDavid. They need to focus on beating the Oilers.

The best way to do that is with depth and balanced scoring.

The Oilers top 2 forwards are amazing, there is no disputing that. But i honestly believe the Flames have much better lines with less drop off between them than the Oilers do. That needs to be exploited in future matchups.

[Sainters7]

Haha man, this Jets game can't come soon enough. 3 days gives waaaay too much time to over-analyze that first crappy game. People keep talking about how we "get an ornery Jets team now, great.." I'm more thinking now the Jets should be worried becuase they're getting an ornery Flames team. Is it Saturday yet?

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Wayne had 215 points....I would be surprised if McDavid had half of that this year.

You can't compare scoring in the NHL in 85-86 to now like that. They're completely different games, especially in regards to the goaltending.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Crosby put up 120 in the same year, when the game was more physical and the ability to grind it out in the o-zone was needed. So he has yet to even pass Sid's mark in a time when the game is more or less tailored to what he likes to do.

This is undeniablely false.....


06-07 was easier to score in than now. They were still calling the game way tighter. They weren't allowing defencemen to use their free hand to grab onto guys in the corner.

Mcdavid would have been more free to play in Crosby's 120 point season.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Corral

Sure sign of a superstar is when teams decide they have to change their game just to address his play. There has been nobody in the NHL of this calibre since Gretzky. Nobody ever developed an effective strategy to defend against Gretzky. It wasn't about defence. He simply slowed down with age.

If McDavid proves to be on that level, he's simply going to ensure the Oilers score at least 2 goals per game on average, and you have to go in knowing it will take at least 3 goals to win.

I don't think there is any question that Mcdavid is a superstar at the level that requires his own custom game style to contain. I think he's the most unique player in the league i have seen in my time as a fan (became a childhood fan since the mid 80s).

He's the fastest skater the league has seen in several decades, or close to it. The game since the 04 lockout has progressed towards high end speed and skill, so we have seen a steady increase in the general speed level of everyone in the league during that time. Yet, Mcdavid makes the next fastest guys in the league look at least a few tiers slower. The scary thing on top of that is that he can basically do all the high level skill plays with the puck going at this top end speed. Again, something never seen before. There have been plenty of fast skaters but ones that can make all the high level skill plays at that speed is extremely rare.

Above someone mentioned the Sedins, and how applying pressure was the secret to reduce their effectiveness. I fundamentally disagree with that statement. The only way the flames finally were able to contain the sedins is when they actually didn't chase them around the boards and behind the net. Instead, they backed off and got into good position to cover the net and blocking passing lanes.

I think the same type of approach, but on a rink wide basis is somewhat required for Mcdavid. I don't think shadowing him is entirely effective. Having someone at his hip may be ok, but his first few steps are so fast, it just becomes that much easier for him to beat his shadowing checker. Mcdavid's game breaking ability is in his speed, and ability to generate breakaways and odd man rushes due to his speed. Main ways to counter this:
1) Keep the puck deep in his zone, and keep it up against the walls.

2) you simply can't throw the puck away, EVEN in the offensive zone. The 2nd oiler goal, off the ferland 'giveaway' is a prime example of it. Having the puck and not giving it away is obvious, but what is just as crucial is what you do with the puck when you dont have a play, even in the oilers zone. Puck placement/management is vital. If you don't have a play, putting it into an area that allows you and your teammates to get into better defensive position is vital.

the game plan i would like to see against mcdavid is keeping the pucks deep in the oiler zone and have him and his line waste their shift against the boards defending the cycle. Unfortunately, most of the flames lines actually suck at that type of game. in that case, i would say that if your not the 3M line (which can cycle) if you get stuck out against the mcdavid line, when you have the puck dump it in, and everyone fall back and clog up the defensive neutral zone with active sticks.

There's a reason we all hate Kesler. He gets away with cross checks, slashes, and general crap against anyone. But you gotta respect him. He has NO issues in going against the face of the league and playing him ugly. There is no one on the flames that is willing to rough it up with him. Heck, i don't think any flames try to finish their checks against him. In my mind, Sam Bennett has to consider that he needs to be that guy. He's a player of the same mold of a Kadri. This means it may take him some time (as it did with kadri) but eventually he's gotta learn his role and how he will be a difference maker in the league. Kadri was one of the toughest oppositions for Mcdavid last year. I am hoping Bennett realizes that points are one thing, but being that pest who always finishes their checks and is willing to get nasty with anyone in the league, including the superstars is vital. We did see hints of that last season, which is extremely promising. My fear is that in hopes to prove folks wrong and get that next big contract, he is too focussed on just goals & assists rather than the type of play that suits him best. He should look directly at Kadri as an example of how that still means you can get your points. I guess even if Bennett did become that guy, would he be willing to rough it up with the biggest star in the league, who is also a childhood buddy is another major question mark.

Long schbeel. sorry. In summary, there has to be a custom game plan vs mcdavid, he's the biggest game breaker the game has seen in a long ass time. Playing him physical is a bit of a reach given the players we have, but if there is one, its Sam Bennett... at this point, that's a long ways away and it's likely to never manifest.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

You can't compare scoring in the NHL in 85-86 to now like that. They're completely different games, especially in regards to the goaltending.

But on same hand Gretzky didn't have composite sticks, Gary Roberts type training, hockey academy high schools etc.

Crosby is a good comparison for McDavid. Gretzky is another level.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Wyguy

I think this is just flat out wrong. Teams make game plans for all teams with a player that has a unique game style. As it has already been mentioned JG did great the first couple seasons but the other teams have developed game plans and has made his life harder. And that is just one example.

JG is not a superstar and i don't think teams decided to alter their entire game strategy to neutralize him. They just started to push him around and intimidate.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Did you even watch hockey after 1995?!

The entire league changed towards a more defensive style of hockey.

And my point is that Gretzky slowed down in the mid 1990s because he was then well past his prime years. Nobody figured out how to stop him.