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Old 07-15-2019, 03:43 PM   #1
cam_wmh
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I'll start the new thread, with some humbling transfer news.

Liverpool spent less on Van Dijk, and Juve will spend less on De Ligt, than United will on Harry Maguire at $80m. Nowhere close to either of them.

Comparable to John Stones, who's $55m looks like good value now.

United keeps swinging with these CB acquisitions, but has yet to find a committed, top-flight young center mid.

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Griezman apparently making Coutinho expendable, with rumours of a loan back to Liverpool. Talk about value dropping like a rock.
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Old 07-15-2019, 03:53 PM   #2
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What is the "Premiere" League?
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:05 PM   #3
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Liverpool spent less on Van Dijk
see, I don't understand this argument at all. People point at the fee and tie it to Van Dijks performances at Liverpool these days, but back then Liverpool was ridiculed by A LOT of people. Van Dijk was really solid at Southampton, but certainly not the superstar he is today. I'd argue he wasn't better back then than Maguire has been at Leicester. Also, the rumour is 60m plus 20m in add-ons, but that just doesn't sound as dramatic, right? Always glass half empty these days ...

I'd love to have Maguire at United. He's a beast in the air and really good with the ball, and a back four of Wan-Bissaka/Lindelof/Maguire/Shaw would be a huge improvement over last year and also has a lot of upside still. So I hope it happens. It's a ton of money, but hey, it's a crazy market. Tyrone frigging Mings costs 20m plus 6m in add-ons, that's how effed up things are. Clubs just don't need the money and won't sell unless it's a ridiculous offer, and it won't change anytime soon. Mmight as well accept that.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:40 PM   #4
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Club is a shambles at the moment and if reports are true it's getting no better.

Wage structure is out of control with De Gea asking for significantly more than Sanchez's 350k/week. Whilst he's right on the one hand on asking for more than Sanchez (tealady would be justified for asking for more). They need to put a cap on it and say that was a huge mistake which won't be happening again.

They've gotta farm Sanchez out somewhere. Having that Pos in the dressing room with players looking over and seeing his wages leads to nothing but resentment.

I'm more interested in and will judge the off season by who they get rid of just as much as who they bring in. Could care less if Maguire comes at that price.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:45 PM   #5
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Club is a shambles at the moment and if reports are true it's getting no better.

Wage structure is out of control with De Gea asking for significantly more than Sanchez's 350k/week. Whilst he's right on the one hand on asking for more than Sanchez (tealady would be justified for asking for more). They need to put a cap on it and say that was a huge mistake which won't be happening again.

They've gotta farm Sanchez out somewhere. Having that Pos in the dressing room with players looking over and seeing his wages leads to nothing but resentment.

I'm more interested in and will judge the off season by who they get rid of just as much as who they bring in. Could care less if Maguire comes at that price.
How exactly is he a POS, for taking the wages that United offered him? Yeah he wasn't good last year but seems like a really stupid comment just because your team was dumb and overpaid him. Unless I am missing some scandal he is involved in.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:49 PM   #6
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How exactly is he a POS, for taking the wages that United offered him? Yeah he wasn't good last year but seems like a really stupid comment just because your team was dumb and overpaid him. Unless I am missing some scandal he is involved in.
OK. Useless Pos. Better?
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:55 PM   #7
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How exactly is he a POS, for taking the wages that United offered him? Yeah he wasn't good last year but seems like a really stupid comment just because your team was dumb and overpaid him. Unless I am missing some scandal he is involved in.
They justified his wages by arguing they didnt have to pay a transfer fee, but the players in the room dont care about that.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:00 PM   #8
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On one hand it’s a lot for Maguire, but the market is just crazy for homegrown players at this point. Leicester apparently replaced him with Dunk for £45m, which also seems crazy.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:37 AM   #9
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Could care less if Maguire comes at that price.
how much?

in all seriousness, I guess I'm in the minority among United fans who chooses to be optimistic. I think the top 3 are miles off (City and Liverpool are extremely well-balanced teams and Spurs are easily 3rd best IMO), but beyond that, I think 4th place is realistic and that's all I want this year to be honest with you. I think United is looking at a 2-3 year rebuild and making CL is crucial next year in order to continuously push forward and hopefully challenge for the title in 2022. It's a mess of a situation, but that's what the club deserves after 6 six years of bad planning, terrible transfers and mismanagement at every level.

I think 4th place is realistic. As bad as things have been going, it's not like Chelsea and Arsenal are doing well either. Chelsea have a new manager, can't strengthen and have lost a worldclass player in Hazard. Arsenal don't have any cash to strengthen it seems because Kroenke is beyond terrible. Given that expectations are pretty low, I think United could surprise a few people this upcoming year.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:02 AM   #10
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see, I don't understand this argument at all. People point at the fee and tie it to Van Dijks performances at Liverpool these days, but back then Liverpool was ridiculed by A LOT of people. Van Dijk was really solid at Southampton, but certainly not the superstar he is today. I'd argue he wasn't better back then than Maguire has been at Leicester. Also, the rumour is 60m plus 20m in add-ons, but that just doesn't sound as dramatic, right? Always glass half empty these days ...

I'd love to have Maguire at United. He's a beast in the air and really good with the ball, and a back four of Wan-Bissaka/Lindelof/Maguire/Shaw would be a huge improvement over last year and also has a lot of upside still. So I hope it happens. It's a ton of money, but hey, it's a crazy market. Tyrone frigging Mings costs 20m plus 6m in add-ons, that's how effed up things are. Clubs just don't need the money and won't sell unless it's a ridiculous offer, and it won't change anytime soon. Mmight as well accept that.
The add-on’s are just delayed payment, never heard those not being quantified as money. These fees just further inflate, what the club is asked for “above average” players. Van Dijk was absolutely better than Maguire the year before their transfers.

Embarrassing, apologetic revisionism.

Media blows up Maguire after the WC, and naturally being English inflates his value. Yes he’s good, not highest CB transfer ever good.

Lindelof in there, is sobering also.

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Club is a shambles at the moment and if reports are true it's getting no better.

Wage structure is out of control with De Gea asking for significantly more than Sanchez's 350k/week. Whilst he's right on the one hand on asking for more than Sanchez (tealady would be justified for asking for more). They need to put a cap on it and say that was a huge mistake which won't be happening again.

They've gotta farm Sanchez out somewhere. Having that Pos in the dressing room with players looking over and seeing his wages leads to nothing but resentment.

I'm more interested in and will judge the off season by who they get rid of just as much as who they bring in. Could care less if Maguire comes at that price.
Apparently Sanchez is getting the chance at #9, with Lukakus departure. Lol I’d rather have Zidane’s problem with Bale.

If De Gea doesn’t sign, needs to be sold within the year.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:07 AM   #11
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The add-onís are just delayed payment, never heard those not being quantified as money.
installments and add-ons are completely different things. Add-ons are performance-related, which means that IF United pay the whole 80m, it probably means they've won titles and Maguire has hit several milestones. It's why United will never pay the whole amount for Martial either because there's Ballon d'or clauses in there and stuff like that.

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Van Dijk was absolutely better than Maguire the year before their transfers.
agree to disagree then. But please enlighten me then which CB United should buy instead? I think we can all agree that a new CB is an absolute must. Which realistic option is out there that is cheaper and better than Maguire? I'll wait. And don't list players like De Ligt who would turn us down in a heartbeat.

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Lindelof in there, is sobering also.
love it or hate it, he's the best CB at United right now.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:27 AM   #12
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installments and add-ons are completely different things. Add-ons are performance-related, which means that IF United pay the whole 80m, it probably means they've won titles and Maguire has hit several milestones. It's why United will never pay the whole amount for Martial either because there's Ballon d'or clauses in there and stuff like that.
Youíll have to show me these trophy vs the standard games-played, add-on clauses. Iíd be surprised Iíd if Leicester agreed to a trophy winning clause.

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agree to disagree then. But please enlighten me then which CB United should buy instead? I think we can all agree that a new CB is an absolute must. Which realistic option is out that is cheaper and better than Maguire? I'll wait. And don't list players like De Ligt who would turn us down in a heartbeat.


love it or hate it, he's the best CB at United right now.
Haha, Iíll take the bait. Leaders like Lascelles, or Ake, whom donít carry the English price tag. Like Maguire, signed recent long term contracts.

At 80m+, Iíd like to think Jimenez could be persuaded, but players love the Spanish weather...
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:40 AM   #13
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t's not bait, I'm honestly interested because it's super-easy to moan about transfer fees and apparent targets, but coming up with alternatives is a completely different story


Lascelles and Ake would be a little cheaper, but I think they'd also cost more than 50m easily in this market.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:49 AM   #14
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So where’s this $20m, add-on clause breakdown?
When Martial was bought, a trophy clause made a lot more sense than today.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:49 AM   #15
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Double post

Last edited by cam_wmh; 07-16-2019 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:01 AM   #16
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Martial didn't have a trophy clause either. It was 36m up front, 7m if he scores 25 PL goals, 7m if he wins 25 caps and 7m if he wins Ballon d'Or. He triggered the first clause, the other two expired in June.

as for Maguire, we'll see - I'm sure details will surface. But we might have jumped the gun anyway, let's see if it even happens.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:40 AM   #17
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looks like Kieran Trippier is headed to Atletico. Weird one.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:53 AM   #18
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Well, West Ham did not get Maxi Gomez, but it sounds like Sebastien Haller may be quite good!
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:57 AM   #19
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Haller is quality. Fantastic deal for West Ham, no idea why no bigger clubs would pay that for him.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:13 AM   #20
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Maguire is probably overpriced at £80 million, but it's kinda relative right? I would argue Van Djik and Laporte were overprice when they were bought, and now they are pretty clearly the two best CBs in the league. Price only becomes an issue if performance is lacking. And of course there is the English tax to pay which inflates things. He's gotta be worth at least 8 points to United next year simply by not being Phil Jones.
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