The videos the last few nights have been crazy, and police conduct that's being shown is absolutely disgusting. Shooting journalists, pepper spraying people who are identifying themselves as press and down on the ground, what the hell?
In some of those videos, the police are massively outnumbered, I would not be at all surprised if people went too far and there were police getting seriously injured or worse, if this continues.
There was a MN state official on CNN (or MSNBC) earlier that stated they had tracked known antifa members to Minneapolis....though i have no idea what that actually means. Some were arrested as well.
Do the FBI have files on those associated with them? Is there an actual "group" you join or is it just a bunch of extremists they label as all being similar?
I have no idea.
I think it's more the latter. I admit I don't know much about them either. I only seem to hear about them in "conservative" media.
I posted this several hundred posts ago and still have not received a satisfactory response, despite people continuing to support, or at least excuse, the rioting and looting.
I continue to await an explanation.
Except for the rare poster not many are pro-looting.
But you can't argue that the more extreme the action - the more news coverage it's going to get and thus the more discussion the issue is going to get.
I posted about a Toronto protest yesterday with 1000s of people that was peaceful and most have likely never heard about it or the reason for it. In a few months - the internal Ontario police investigators will in all likelihood release something that exonerates the police and you will still not have heard about it unless there is some kind of huge protest or a riot afterward.
These things have historically been swept under the rug unless there is outrage. This issue didn't start this week, but until this week it wasn't going to be a big issue in the upcoming presidential election. Now it will be a big issue.
It works this way for literally every dispute ever. If you and I go to a restaurant and they screw up both of our orders - if you quietly speak to the server and I flip out, cause a scene and threaten to leave bad reviews everywhere - very likely I'm going to get more attention and a more beneficial resolution to the situation.
Tell that to the people they tossed out apartment building windows.
WTF did you hear or see this? Did you see the old man got lit up by the protester? Jesus Christ I'm hate how people spread rumor around. Wait, you must've heard it from Apple Daily, or Fox News?
__________________
Last edited by midniteowl; 05-31-2020 at 02:49 PM.
WTF did you hear or see this? Did you see the old man got lit up by the protester? Jesus Christ I'm hate how people spread rumor around. Wait, you must've heard it from Apple Daily, or Fox News?
I posted this several hundred posts ago and still have not received a satisfactory response, despite people continuing to support, or at least excuse, the rioting and looting.
I continue to await an explanation.
LA went from 60% white cops to 30% white cops. 14% public satisfaction rate to 58% satisfaction rate. Hiding all officer involved deaths to publishing all officer involved deaths. 7000 body cams. And a switch from an arrest based metric of success to a community engagement model.
It shouldn't ever be incumbent upon a victim to take the high road. Never know. You might be the first one out wrecking stuff if your life were altered in any significant way.
The Following User Says Thank You to OMG!WTF! For This Useful Post:
I posted this several hundred posts ago and still have not received a satisfactory response, despite people continuing to support, or at least excuse, the rioting and looting.
I continue to await an explanation.
I'll perhaps meet you half way.
The police are corrupt and racist. That's fact #1. And there shouldn't have to have an incident to spark a protest, this is systematic. Colin Kaepernick did this. He was the one who protested the anthem because it doesn't represent blacks who still face systematic racism. Where'd that get him? Blacks will support money and the NFL before they support him.
I stated earlier, peaceful protests wouldn't have solved anything. If the police precinct hadn't been burned down on Thursday night there wouldn't have been charges Friday morning. So that was a positive. And even then, it was filmsy charges at best. That should be minimum 2nd degree murder, if one feels that 1st degree murder would be too difficult to convict. Blacks have seen this dog and pony show too many times of police officers not being convicted for abuses.
I think protesting and targeting violence in the proper areas makes sense. At the police stations, at government buildings, at the White House. That's all fine. People should not be looting their fellow citizens businesses. Especially black ones.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Last edited by GirlySports; 05-31-2020 at 03:07 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to GirlySports For This Useful Post:
I can't honestly say that rioting doesn't change things. It sparked a change in LA. This isn't like the first time this happened and people went straight to rioting. People are angry and this happens. I understand that unfortunately looting and rioting are too often intrinsically entwined. But if I was living in this situation, and kept seeing it over and over again, and the same placating was happening every time with no change, I'd want to pick up a brick too.
I guess it depends what you think qualifies "rioting". Disruptive and unruly protests that require a police response to contain, but don't cause extensive property damage (because some property damage is going to be inevitable), or lighting cars and buildings on fire and smashing up storefronts? I just don't think that part actually helps incrementally over doing exactly the same thing without the wanton destruction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss
But you can't argue that the more extreme the action - the more news coverage it's going to get and thus the more discussion the issue is going to get.
This makes some sense, intuitively. Again, though, I'm not convinced that the news would have spent less time and energy devoted to these protests if they hadn't burnt a bunch of stuff down and destroyed a bunch of buildings / storefronts / etc. I think it was pretty much front of mind either way, and I seriously doubt that absent the destruction, anyone would have been a) unaware that these protests are happening, and b) unaware that they're about police brutality against black people. In light of that, what additional discussion does the destruction generate that is actually helpful - rather than distracting from - the ultimate goal here? Would the discussion not be more squarely focused on the behaviour of the officers themselves and what's going to happen to them, rather than the damage that's been caused?
This just goes back to my point. You have to do more than say "we're getting attention for a worthwhile cause". I still need to know how doing this is actually going to result in some beneficial effect for your cause that wouldn't be achieved if you didn't break a bunch of stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
I stated earlier, peaceful protests wouldn't have solved anything. If the police precinct hadn't been burned down on Thursday night there wouldn't have been charges Friday morning. So that was a positive. And even then, it was filmsy charges at best. That should be minimum 2nd degree murder, if one feels that 1st degree murder would be too difficult to convict. Blacks have seen this dog and pony show too many times of police officers not being convicted for abuses.
This is a combination of nonsense and the same arguments I was already pointing out were flawed. The fact that being peaceful has not solved the problem does not constitute an argument for violence. You still have to make a convincing case that violence will solve the problem. No, the charges that were laid were not capitulation to the violence in Minneapolis - those were absolutely going to happen anyway, as everyone was already in favour of them and there was tremendous public pressure before the first window was smashed or the first fire was lit. And no, it should not be second or first degree murder - that betrays a lack of understanding of what those crimes entail and how they are proved, as was discussed for several pages earlier.
You can't just ignore a bunch of the discussion and then come in and repeat positions that have already been debunked at length. That is not a helpful contribution to the thread.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Well I drove through the Mar-a-Lago neighborhood today.
There are PBSO vehicles at the entrances and perimeter, and also on the Southern Bl bridge which adjoins one of the entrances.
Driving down A1A I noticed Palm Beach police vehicles guarding various driveways, and some big black SUVs in others.
I don’t remember exactly where Rush and the other buddies live, but I’m sure those are the folks benefiting from this surveillance.
And I guess COVID-19 has been completely eradicated in South Florida. Who knew?
People packed together on corners waiting to cross to get to the beach, people packed together at Boynton Inlet. A large group in front of L’Eau Palm Beach. I probably saw several hundred people with no masks and not practicing social distancing. What changed in the past few days?
Last week most of the people walking down A1A kept social distance and wore masks. Today it was totally different.
I did see a guy wearing a mask go by on a motorcycle.
I really have no faith in this going away any time soon. Really, WTF.
I have an issue with looting. Rioting depends on the target. Smashing and burning random vehicles or buildings does nothing to help the cause. But going after the police station that employed Chauvin and forcing evacuation, that was powerful.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Crown Royal For This Useful Post:
lol some people are taking the antifa bait? PT Barnum you brilliant bastard.
Trump obviously inflates the size of Antifa. But c’mon. This is like Christmas, Burning Man, and Spring Break rolled into one for 25 year old anti-capitalist militants. They’ll be boasting to one another for years about the #### they got up to in the Floyd riots.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
It sucks that he lost everything he had worked for, and I disagree with psycnet when he says that the looting and arson isn't a big deal. But you lose me when you name check Antifa. Were "they" even involved?
They've been activeion the area, you can see on twitter hashtags a lot of these morons proudly declaring to keep agitating with Antifa affiliations.
Most of them appear to be white. They carry no signs and don't want to speak to reporters. Trailed by designated "medics" with red crosses taped to their clothes, these groups head straight for the front lines of the conflict.
Night after night in this ravaged city, these small groups do battle with police and the National Guard, kicking away tear gas canisters and throwing back foam-rubber projects fired at them. Around them, fires break out. Windows are smashed. Parked cars destroyed. USA TODAY reporters have witnessed the groups on multiple nights, in multiple locations. Sometimes they threaten those journalists who photograph them destroying property.
Leggat, the security consultant, said intelligence reports from his colleagues indicate most of the hard-core protesters in Minneapolis are far-left or anarchists, and that far-right groups have not yet made a significant appearance. He said looting is typically done by locals – usually people with no criminal record who just get caught up in the moment.
So whether it's Antifa, or some other left wing fringe group which would be weird because ANTIFA is the most prominent of these dirtbags, it's a bunch of mainly white far left losers in their 20s torching inner city neighborhoods.
I posted this several hundred posts ago and still have not received a satisfactory response, despite people continuing to support, or at least excuse, the rioting and looting.
I continue to await an explanation.
Honestly, what are you even looking for an answer to? or who are you calling out??
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Samonadreau For This Useful Post:
Trump obviously inflates the size of Antifa. But c’mon. This is like Christmas, Burning Man, and Spring Break rolled into one for 25 year old anti-capitalist militants. They’ll be boasting to one another for years about the #### they got up to in the Floyd riots.
The Antifa movement is a gift to the right.
The number of people actually doing things under the Antifa name is a lot smaller than the right thinks though. They give it way more credit than it deserves.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
The number of people actually doing things under the Antifa name is a lot smaller than the right thinks though. They give it way more credit than it deserves.
To even think that Antifa exists outside of a couple edgy Discords and occasional drinking nights at a dive bar is laughable
The number of people actually doing things under the Antifa name is a lot smaller than the right thinks though. They give it way more credit than it deserves.
All it takes is 6 or 8 hardcores in any given protest or riot to wreak a lot of damage. Most of the violence and destruction at these things are carried out by a very small number of participants.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following User Says Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
The number of people actually doing things under the Antifa name is a lot smaller than the right thinks though. They give it way more credit than it deserves.
Antifa is not a gift to the right, the left, the middle, or anything else. It is an anarchist organization meant to stir up #### regardless of who is in power. This is a group of people that just want to stick a middle finger up to any group in power, break ####, and spray paint anything that doesn't move. They are punks with too much time on their hands, who will take advantage of any event or social movement to stir up the crap. Antifa is irrelevant and Trump's declaration of them being a terror organization is stupidity at its highest level. Trump's declaration gives these punks exactly what they want - legitimacy. This is a distraction from the issue at hand. Institutional racism is being ignored so Trump can declare a new enemy, when the enemy is the issue being protested.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Lanny_McDonald For This Useful Post:
I posted this several hundred posts ago and still have not received a satisfactory response, despite people continuing to support, or at least excuse, the rioting and looting.
I continue to await an explanation.
I'm going to sidestep the question of "is it useful" and take another angle to this.
Who's job is it to make sure shops don't get looted?
a) The police force
b) The people who organize protests against police violence?
When the police loses control of a city, **** happens. When the police brutalize and murder the people they should be protecting, at some point the people will start lashing out. It's just going to happen. If you keep hitting people, eventually some of them will start hitting back and hitting first, and while it's easy to say that people getting hit should try to keep their calm, it's just unrealistic to expect that everyone will turn the other cheek forever.
Everything that's happening in the riots is ultimately the fault of the police. The whole string of events that led to this was their fault. They killed someone, they let the murderer go (initially), they completely effed up their response to people protesting... in some places. They've been building this fire for decades, by being unnecessary violent, incompetent, blatantly racist and uninterested in reforms.
In a functioning democracy when people are protesting, it's the job of the police to make sure the protesters get to voice their opinion in a safe and organized manner, and that nobody takes advantage of the situation by, say, rioting.
In too many places in the US the police is both incapable and unwilling to take this attitude. In Minneapolis the police completely ignored the first public outcry which created the need for people to protest. They then tried to first intimidate and then brutalize the protesters into submission. It's not only a horribly fascist response and of very questionable legality, it's also terrible policing as we can see from the results. The riots are not "the other side" here, they're another incriminating fact that underlines how absolutely terrible the police in Minneapolis and many other places are at their job. Instead of arresting and convicting the murderer they started fights with the people who wanted the murderer arrested. Instead of focusing on catching the rioters and looters, they've been beating up anyone who gets on their nerves too much and shooting rubber bullets at reporters and even at random people on the streets. The police have been very actively escalating the situation into what it is now.
It's worth noting that not all police forces in the US suck at their job like this. In the places where the police have responded to protests with respectful communication and humility, even sometimes marching with the protesters, things have been peaceful. This shows very clearly that the riots and looting were not inevitable and not something that automatically needed to follow the protests. The looting and rioting are as much the result of violent, racist and incompetent policing as the protests themselves.
I also have a comment on the looting:
While I don't support looting, to some extent I get it. Not the white guy who takes the opportunity to steal a Lego set (Seriously that happened ), and not every looter, but... We live in a consumerist society where to be normal is to have stuff. If you're a poor black person in America, I get that you might feel the game is so rigged against you that it's okay for you to break the rules too, and just take stuff when the opportunity arises.
It's not okay, it's still a crime, but it's very human and understandable.
Last edited by Itse; 05-31-2020 at 03:52 PM.
The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to Itse For This Useful Post:
), and not every looter, but... We live in a consumerist society where to be normal is to have stuff. If you're a poor black person in America, I get that you might feel the game is so rigged against you that it's okay for you to break the rules too, and just take stuff when the opportunity arises. 
