2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[topfiverecords]

Doubt Columbus trades Jones somewhere he won’t sign with. They’ll get more for him with an extension agreed to.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Nobody cares.

Laine would be a great target, and I would definitely trade 12th overall for him.

I still think Monahan - Laine is the basis for a trade.

You will care when he costs us a bundle in salary and regresses fast because he can't bother to train in the offseason. Combine that with the fact he plays zero defence and bleeds goals with a GAF meter of zero and he will quickly become the next Jeff Skinner contract.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If Jones would sign an extension in Calgary I'd do it.

Jones with an extension and Laine for Monahan and Andersson.

Leaves us weaker at C though.

You wouldn’t get a signed Jones alone for that, much less getting Laine tossed in.


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[Wood]

I wouldn't trade Monahan for Laine 1 for 1. Laine has serious attitude issues and is never going to fit in on a team unless he grows up

Just last week he blamed Tortorella for his bad season because Torts asked him to put as much effort into defense as he does on offense. Laine said "I do not even want to be like everyone else. I am who I am and do things my way. Everyone should be given the opportunity to be themselves. Then, of course, you have to play within the team’s system. I think it’s stupid not to use my potential. But then it’s another matter what the coaches think"

He's not willing to play a team game. If you think Monahan had a bad year while injuried, Laine only put up 10 goals healthy

[Prufrock]

I would do Monahan and Andersson for Jones (assuming he'd re-sign) and Bjorkstrand. I love Bjorkstrand.

Then we'd have Finland, Sweden, Norway AND Denmark covered. The inifinity gauntlet is almost complete.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

I would do Monahan and Andersson for Jones (assuming he'd re-sign) and Bjorkstrand. I love Bjorkstrand.

Then we'd have Finland, Sweden, Norway AND Denmark covered. The inifinity gauntlet is almost complete.

Rasmus Andersson = Seth Jones, and I'd much sooner have Andersson at $4.55M AAV vs. whatever grotesquely inflated contract Seth Jones is going to get.

If properly slotted both players are 2nd pairing defencemen, and with Andersson you can at least have the hope that he'll get better while Seth Jones is actively declining.

[1qqaaz]

Yeah I think the modern Seth Jones might be a little overrated by some.

However, I think he's probably likely to rebound.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Rasmus Andersson = Seth Jones, and I'd much sooner have Andersson at $4.55M AAV vs. whatever grotesquely inflated contract Seth Jones is going to get.

If properly slotted both players are 2nd pairing defencemen, and with Andersson you can at least have the hope that he'll get better while Seth Jones is actively declining.

Oh boy.

22 point career high Rasmus is 57 point career high Seth Jones?

Did you not see him struggle to replace Brodie, while Gio also played well below his level compensating for Rasmus?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Oh boy.

22 point career high Rasmus is 57 point career high Seth Jones?

Did you not see him struggle to replace Brodie, while Gio also played well below his level compensating for Rasmus?

Seth Jones has been in the league 9 full seasons. Rasmus has been in the league 3 full seasons. Raz may have struggled to be a first pairing guy, but that's because he isn't one - and neither is Seth Jones.

Seth Jones' 57 point season was 4 seasons ago. His last four seasons: 57 points, 46 points, 30 points, 28 points.

Seth Jones is undoubtedly about to get paid like he is a 57 point defenceman, but he's not. He's not an overly strong play driver. He's not overly strong defensively. The guy is already on a steady decline at 28, and he's about to get a 7 year deal (if not 8) that pays him entirely too much money, and won't end for another 8 seasons (or 9).

Yeah, I take Andersson and his contract, which is fair value for a 2nd pairing defenceman, ahead of Seth Jones and the disaster of a contract he's about to sign. *Today* they're about the same player.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You wouldn’t get a signed Jones alone for that, much less getting Laine tossed in.


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IMO it'd be a lot closer than you think.

Jones has back slid for a few years now and Laine is completely draped in red flags at this point.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Seth Jones has been in the league 9 full seasons. Rasmus has been in the league 3 full seasons. Raz may have struggled to be a first pairing guy, but that's because he isn't one - and neither is Seth Jones.

Seth Jones' 57 point season was 4 seasons ago. His last four seasons: 57 points, 46 points, 30 points, 28 points.

Seth Jones is undoubtedly about to get paid like he is a 57 point defenceman, but he's not. He's not an overly strong play driver. He's not overly strong defensively. The guy is already on a steady decline at 28, and he's about to get a 7 year deal (if not 8) that pays him entirely too much money, and won't end for another 8 seasons (or 9).

Yeah, I take Andersson and his contract, which is fair value for a 2nd pairing defenceman, ahead of Seth Jones and the disaster of a contract he's about to sign. *Today* they're about the same player.

Ok, fair.

Don’t forget the 30 and 28 points are both in 56 GP, so more like 41-44 points over 82

I hope Rasmus lives up to his contract, he was paid early IMO based on potential rather than achievement

It’s an example of why I don’t like how Chia and Dubas broke the RFA advantage

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ok, fair.

Don’t forget the 30 and 28 points are both in 56 GP, so more like 41-44 points over 82

I hope Rasmus lives up to his contract, he was paid early IMO based on potential rather than achievement

It’s an example of why I don’t like how Chia and Dubas broke the RFA advantage

I think the work the doofus up North was at least respectable - he got full-term on both of those deals (Draisaitl and McDavid).

100% agreed on Dubas. Handing out the contracts he did while only locking in 5 years on Matthews? That broke the market and directly led to Tkachuk signing his brutal 3-year bridge deal.

Andersson absolutely has to be better, even as a 2nd pairing guy (which is what he's paid to be - but there go the Flames slotting players incorrectly when he was on the top pair). He wasn't far off where he should be, but I feel like we'll really get a sense of what he's going to be for the remainder of that deal this coming season. This will after all be his first NHL season with competent head coaching.

Back on Jones though - that guy is going to sign a grenade of a contract with the pin already pulled on it.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Seth Jones has been in the league 9 full seasons. Rasmus has been in the league 3 full seasons. Raz may have struggled to be a first pairing guy, but that's because he isn't one - and neither is Seth Jones.

Seth Jones' 57 point season was 4 seasons ago. His last four seasons: 57 points, 46 points, 30 points, 28 points.

Seth Jones is undoubtedly about to get paid like he is a 57 point defenceman, but he's not. He's not an overly strong play driver. He's not overly strong defensively. The guy is already on a steady decline at 28, and he's about to get a 7 year deal (if not 8) that pays him entirely too much money, and won't end for another 8 seasons (or 9).

Yeah, I take Andersson and his contract, which is fair value for a 2nd pairing defenceman, ahead of Seth Jones and the disaster of a contract he's about to sign. *Today* they're about the same player.

At first I didn't understand your analogy, but now it makes sense. I think Seth's reach helps him become a #2 guy if you have a very strong #1. Else he's a #3.


Most UFAs are going to get paid a value above what they're truly worth. It's no different than acquiring a company in a merger and acquisition. If you can't develop that skill or capability internally, you look outside, and the only way to get that outside is to pay a premium for a skill you don't have. That's why I really don't want the Flames to buy any free agents this year. Everyone seems dead set on getting a longer term deal and we all know those are the ones that truly hurt. Overpay a guy for 3 years, fine (to some degree). Extend that to 5 and it's a helpless endeavor as a fan to realize you're in cap hell and there's nothing you can do about it. This team isn't on the cusp on winning. No to UFAs.

[FanIn80]

Ok, so.... we trade Monahan for Laine... who do we trade for a top six center to replace Monahan... Laine?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by fleury

At first I didn't understand your analogy, but now it makes sense. I think Seth's reach helps him become a #2 guy if you have a very strong #1. Else he's a #3.


Most UFAs are going to get paid a value above what they're truly worth. It's no different than acquiring a company in a merger and acquisition. If you can't develop that skill or capability internally, you look outside, and the only way to get that outside is to pay a premium for a skill you don't have. That's why I really don't want the Flames to buy any free agents this year. Everyone seems dead set on getting a longer term deal and we all know those are the ones that truly hurt. Overpay a guy for 3 years, fine (to some degree). Extend that to 5 and it's a helpless endeavor as a fan to realize you're in cap hell and there's nothing you can do about it. This team isn't on the cusp on winning. No to UFAs.

Yeah, I agree. The type of contract Jones is going to get is just the type of contracts players get in Free Agency. You have to hope that the player you're signing already isn't in free fall though, or at the very least has a recent history of being a play driving/producing player. Jones just doesn't have that. Hockey GM's will pay a 6'4" right shooting defenceman though, and while he's being horribly overpaid the pundits will all say "he eats minutes though! Players that can eat 25 minutes a night are hard to come by!"...even though he won't be eating them well.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sounds more and more like the Flames have a real problem with letting their players rest appropriately when injured.

I really don’t get how this is a grey area. Injured, sit. Not injured? Play. If you can play, you’re not injured. But if you are still injured, you shouldn’t be playing. Why is this so hard?

What, you don't think it's a good idea to play an injury prone goalie back-to-back games immediately upon returning from injury?

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You will care when he costs us a bundle in salary and regresses fast because he can't bother to train in the offseason. Combine that with the fact he plays zero defence and bleeds goals with a GAF meter of zero and he will quickly become the next Jeff Skinner contract.

Sadly, this statement could easily apply to either of our highly paid LWs...

Concussion [and Covid?] seems like a reasonable excuse for one shortened off-seasons.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ok, fair.
It’s an example of why I don’t like how Chia and Dubas broke the RFA advantage

It's actually interesting, as teams realize players peak in their 20s, they try to anticipate that peak, and get them to lock in younger so they have them cost-controlled for longer.



It's risky, because sometimes, as with a guy like Draisatl, it works out for the team. But development is not linear, and players don't always improve like how you think they would. It's easy to say Andersson will improve next year, for instance, but there's no guarantee that happens.


Look at a guy like Colin White, who has not taken the steps forward after signing his big deal. Or Clayton Keller, or Shayne Gostisbehere.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Ped

It's actually interesting, as teams realize players peak in their 20s, they try to anticipate that peak, and get them to lock in younger so they have them cost-controlled for longer.



It's risky, because sometimes, as with a guy like Draisatl, it works out for the team. But development is not linear, and players don't always improve like how you think they would. It's easy to say Andersson will improve next year, for instance, but there's no guarantee that happens.


Look at a guy like Colin White, who has not taken the steps forward after signing his big deal. Or Clayton Keller, or Shayne Gostisbehere.

Was just going to say the same thing. It's certainly not a given that Ras will ever play to the level of Jones.

Penciling in bounce-back seasons and progression from players before it actually happens is how the Flames got themselves into the situation they were last season. Losing Brodie was huge. Mony did not have a bounce-back. Dube did not take a huge step into a top-6 guy, etc.

[dammage79]

I have this terrible gut feeling the Flames lose gio tomorrow and immediately following that, the Flames acquire a LHD (30 years old, retained caphit matching Gios cap...)

And it's gonna come cheap. He's gonna fit into little Stockholm like a glove....

And then if it really happens I'm gonna say we got Maloneyed so hard.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I have this terrible gut feeling the Flames lose gio tomorrow and immediately following that, the Flames acquire a LHD (30 years old, retained caphit matching Gios cap...)

And it's gonna come cheap. He's gonna fit into little Stockholm like a glove....

And then if it really happens I'm gonna say we got Maloneyed so hard.

I'd take OEL at 6.75M to replace Gio. Has he really regressed that badly?