Renewed passenger rail service between Banff and Calgary?

[Table 5]

One thing Banff could really work on is their food. I know there's probably only so much quality you can squeeze out from using Australian vagabonds, but everything there is so mediocre for the cost.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Nufy

This city can't get the C-train to the Airport...

But they want to connect DT Calgary to Banff...

This isn't a city proposal, it's a provincial crown corporation proposal.

City counsellors are simply proposing that council supports the project and looks into a downtown station for it.

If anything, it would expedite the airport-downtown connection.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

People literally make day trips to Banff from Calgary everyday.



I could see this appealing to a lot more people than you think. Not having to rent a car, buy park passes or spend 10-20% more for basically every necessity would be

I’m not saying the financial numbers work out to make this viable or not as I haven’t looked very closely at any of that, but you seem to be of the opinion that no one would have any reason to use this service. If they could make it where using the same infrastructure we would have a line from the airport to Banff with a stop downtown and extra trains dedicated for more frequent airport to downtown runs it could really help hotels and conference centres downtown attract more business.

You still need a park pass.

Anyway, my point was the assumption that Calgary would capture some huge billion dollar windfall from this is nonsense. I don't doubt it would be attractive to tourists to take directly from the airport to Banff. When I travel, I almost always look for a train option first. I'll consider a bus, but probably rent a car. So I get the appeal. it also has big benefits to cutting traffic in Banff. There are good reasons to do this.

I'm not sure I get the finances. We can't build a small section LRT in this city for less than a billion, but they are going to build a train from the airport to downtown, twin the track to Banff, and all the costs of trains, train yards, stations etc for under $500 million? While dealing with CP of all companies, for the privilege? Uh huh.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You still need a park pass.

Anyway, my point was the assumption that Calgary would capture some huge billion dollar windfall from this is nonsense. I don't doubt it would be attractive to tourists to take directly from the airport to Banff. When I travel, I almost always look for a train option first. I'll consider a bus, but probably rent a car. So I get the appeal. it also has big benefits to cutting traffic in Banff. There are good reasons to do this.

I'm not sure I get the finances. We can't build a small section LRT in this city for less than a billion, but they are going to build a train from the airport to downtown, twin the track to Banff, and all the costs of trains, train yards, stations etc for under $500 million? While dealing with CP of all companies, for the privilege? Uh huh.

Where did you see that? The lowest I saw was $1B and I don't believe that includes everything you mentioned.

[Misterpants]

Even for Calgary residents you run in to the same problem as flying to Edmonton. By the time you futz around with parking, getting through security, boarding, getting off the plan and then you are still 45 minutes away from DT Edmonton. Kinda the same thing. If I am planning to go to Banff with the family, after I have gotten there early to park, board the train, wait for all the others to board, half hour ride? and then get off the train at some station out by the outskirts of town. Then what, shuttle in to downtown Banff or 15 minute walk? At that point, imma say eff it and just drive. I get that it opens up Banff to others who can't or wouldn't otherwise go but I just can't see massive uptake on that project. What they should do is have a giant parking lot outside the townsite and do a Heritage Park style train that goes around the town stopping every 15minutes. That would be boss.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Where did you see that? The lowest I saw was $1B and I don't believe that includes everything you mentioned.

Well crap, now I don't know where I saw it. I thought it was around $500 million. Not sure where I heard that now...

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You still need a park pass.

I stand corrected, I didn’t think a pass was needed if you didn’t have a vehicle. Mind you if what I read after a quick google search is any indication, there is currently little to no enforcement on passes unless your vehicle doesn’t have one on it.

Anyway, my point was the assumption that Calgary would capture some huge billion dollar windfall from this is nonsense. I don't doubt it would be attractive to tourists to take directly from the airport to Banff. When I travel, I almost always look for a train option first. I'll consider a bus, but probably rent a car. So I get the appeal. it also has big benefits to cutting traffic in Banff. There are good reasons to do this.

Yeah I’m not buying the random billion dollar benefit estimates either. Politicians should be expected to be able to show their work on those types of claims.

I'm not sure I get the finances. We can't build a small section LRT in this city for less than a billion, but they are going to build a train from the airport to downtown, twin the track to Banff, and all the costs of trains, train yards, stations etc for under $500 million? While dealing with CP of all companies, for the privilege? Uh huh.

Not to defend their numbers because as I said I don’t buy them, but I would imagine this type of project would be considerably less expensive per meter of track than an LRT project would be.

[Fuzz]

Yes, it would be cheaper. But I was revering to them including an airport connection into downtown as an example of it being unreasonable, because you do have all the property issues and utilities, river crossing, etc to deal with. Some sections would be cheap, for sure.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Nufy

This city can't get the C-train to the Airport...

But they want to connect DT Calgary to Banff...

Other way around. Banff wants to connect to the airport.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, it would be cheaper. But I was revering to them including an airport connection into downtown as an example of it being unreasonable, because you do have all the property issues and utilities, river crossing, etc to deal with. Some sections would be cheap, for sure.

I agree, the only way I think the downtown stop makes any sense is if the city intends on pursuing an airport to downtown train with or without the Banff line. Would make a lot more sense and be far more cost effective to share the lines/infrastructure in that scenario.

[MoneyGuy]

You need a parks pass even if you don’t have a car? If I take the bus from Canmore I need a pass?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

You need a parks pass even if you don’t have a car? If I take the bus from Canmore I need a pass?

Yup. All park visitors need a pass. The screwy part is you need to leave it in your vehicle if you park, but then you are also supposed to have it if you are biking on a trial or something. The good news is they can't give you a ticket. They can tell you buy a pass on the spot if they are checking at a ski hill entrance or something, or tell you to go in to town to buy one. But they don't actually have the authority to issue a fine.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Misterpants

Even for Calgary residents you run in to the same problem as flying to Edmonton. By the time you futz around with parking, getting through security, boarding, getting off the plan and then you are still 45 minutes away from DT Edmonton. Kinda the same thing. If I am planning to go to Banff with the family, after I have gotten there early to park, board the train, wait for all the others to board, half hour ride? and then get off the train at some station out by the outskirts of town. Then what, shuttle in to downtown Banff or 15 minute walk? At that point, imma say eff it and just drive. I get that it opens up Banff to others who can't or wouldn't otherwise go but I just can't see massive uptake on that project. What they should do is have a giant parking lot outside the townsite and do a Heritage Park style train that goes around the town stopping every 15minutes. That would be boss.

They have a giant parking lot just past the fenland marsh entrance with Buses to Johnson Canyon, Lake Louise, and the townsite. It’s much better than it’s used to be but they need to make transit free and charge for parking at attractions if they want to make it work.

It should be $40 per car at Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, or JC. $100 a car at moraine lake during larch season. Use that money to subsidize better, more frequent, and free mass transit.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, it would be cheaper. But I was revering to them including an airport connection into downtown as an example of it being unreasonable, because you do have all the property issues and utilities, river crossing, etc to deal with. Some sections would be cheap, for sure.

They are proposing tying into the CP right of way which cuts the land acquisition/development cost significantly (like 10x cheaper per km than the green line). They were on CBC Eyeopener the other day if you are interested.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

While dealing with CP of all companies, for the privilege? Uh huh.

CP is probably highly motivated to get this built. There would be a definite possibility that it gets shut down and they take over the track later for a song - and there is no way they could build track themselves through the parks.

Even if it works wonderfully there is probably an opportunity for them to use the track at night and for passing, which would almost certainly make their operation more efficient.

If it gets blocked by right of way issues I think the reserve is where that happens, not on the CP side.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One thing Banff could really work on is their food. I know there's probably only so much quality you can squeeze out from using Australian vagabonds, but everything there is so mediocre for the cost.

Jesus Christ where are you eating? Aardvark sober?
SaltLik, Bison, Magpie, Glowfood, Wild Flour, Balkan .. mediocre? Lol.

so much quality you can squeeze out from using Australian vagabonds

And what does this even mean?

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I have traveled quite extensively. Some people actually just want to get away for a long weekend, rather than blowing 3 years of savings on an elaborate trip. But even for a longer trip, this can sometimes be the best option. Do you think that people make a week long trip out of Niagara Falls, or do you think they make it a day trip out of a longer visit to Toronto? Do you think people spend a week at the Dead Sea or do you think it's usually a day trip out of Amman or Jerusalem?

This is probably my favorite way to vacation. Stay in the big city and make day trips to areas near by that are attractive. If it's close enough and the city has enough going for it, then it's worth it.

The town of Banff can get pretty damn boring after a day or two. There are only so many beavertails one can eat on a trip.

Calgary isn't exactly the most cultural place with any history to explore. for a traveler, what would staying in Calgary have going for it? not much, really.

Even to be used as a hub. a hub to where? Where else would a person on holiday use Calgary as a hub for? it's not like Europe where there are scores of attractions close by.
Calgary is a great city, but not a destination. the train won't move the needle for that.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Calgary isn't exactly the most cultural place with any history to explore. for a traveler, what would staying in Calgary have going for it? not much, really.

Even to be used as a hub. a hub to where? Where else would a person on holiday use Calgary as a hub for? it's not like Europe where there are scores of attractions close by.
Calgary is a great city, but not a destination. the train won't move the needle for that.

Right… it’s not like Waterton, Dinosaur Disneyland at Drumheller, and Glacier National Park’s Road to the sun are all within a 3 hour drive… on top of the Rocky Mountains.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Other way around. Banff wants to connect to the airport.

I would imagine it being something like the Union Pearson express in Toronto. Lots of complexity but they made it work.

[Bill Bumface]

Would this train not see pretty massive commuter ridership? If you throw a decent train link between Canmore and Calgary, a lot of people are going to be pretty keen to move out that way.