Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I was thinking last night about how Chicago won against st. louis with 8 seconds to go. i'd have to think it is because Chicago still has some guys who really hate losing. at this point I could not see the flames being able to dig deep like that.

but who knows - tonights game is important for the jets as they could still finish ahead of the preds. given the flames have dropped some stinkers, it will be interesting to see if they play with passion or.......

Simple, Chicago is in a different stage of grief compared to the Flames. Their season was over long before ours was, and the collapse was too recent to instantly get over.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Which is really saying the players are not good enough. It's also not like the Flames are overloaded in one dimension vs. another.

So how do you trade Johnny Gaudreau for a more complete version of Gaudreau, with same scoring ability and more all around game? Good luck.

You hope a new coach drives improvement in these guys.

You draft and develop new talent.

I wouldn't say that.

I think skill players routinely come to the NHL needing to develop their 200 foot game, the Calgary examples are no different.

Gulutzan talked about getting Monahan and Bennett to play the right way and when they did it will be a lot of fun to come to the Saddledome.

Was or is he successful? I'll leave that to everyone to decide, but Monahan has certainly made strides.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wouldn't say that.

I think skill players routinely come to the NHL needing to develop their 200 foot game, the Calgary examples are no different.

Gulutzan talked about getting Monahan and Bennett to play the right way and when they did it will be a lot of fun to come to the Saddledome.

Was or is he successful? I'll leave that to everyone to decide, but Monahan has certainly made strides.

I’m not sure I follow you. Point was Flames have a lot of one dimensional players. You can’t tell me guys Hamonic are going to develop an offensive game?

Yes the true elite players on the team can hopefully round out their 200 foot games. It’s great that GG talked about it but if it doesn’t happen, you can either look at the player or the coaching.

Do you believe it is happening currently and staying the course will take us to the promised land?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I was thinking last night about how Chicago won against st. louis with 8 seconds to go. i'd have to think it is because Chicago still has some guys who really hate losing. at this point I could not see the flames being able to dig deep like that.

but who knows - tonights game is important for the jets as they could still finish ahead of the preds. given the flames have dropped some stinkers, it will be interesting to see if they play with passion or.......

The Flames team in 2015 made several of those comebacks where they scored late to tie or win the game. Many of those players are still key parts of this current team.

This years Flames crumble when adversity strikes.

Look at the players added since that season
Tkachuk, Bennett, Jankowski, Hathaway, Frolik, Lazar, Brouwer, Hamilton, Hamonic, Kulak, Stone, Smith, Rittich

Are these the guys responsible for that weak mentality? I don’t think so.

Gulutzan takes the blame on this one imo. Hartley has this team playing until the final whistle. Glen is so busy staring at the iPad after they let in one goal his head is still down and the opposition has scored again

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Flames team in 2015 made several of those comebacks where they scored late to tie or win the game. Many of those players are still key parts of this current team.

This years Flames crumble when adversity strikes.

Look at the players added since that season
Tkachuk, Bennett, Jankowski, Hathaway, Frolik, Lazar, Brouwer, Hamilton, Hamonic, Kulak, Stone, Smith, Rittich

Are these the guys responsible for that weak mentality? I don’t think so.

Gulutzan takes the blame on this one imo. Hartley has this team playing until the final whistle. Glen is so busy staring at the iPad after they let in one goal his head is still down and the opposition has scored again

Just posted this in the other thread, but outside of 1 season, Hartley's teams came back less than Gulutzan's teams. So I don't think you can hang that on GG. 14-15 was a very fun, but very fluky season. Everything went right, we were getting all the bounces and I wouldn't put too much stock into Hartley's come back capability.


Hartley - Comeback wins:
12-13: 2
13-14: 11
14-15: 23
15-16: 10

Gulutzan - Comeback wins:
16-17: 16
17-18: 12


Lastly, this whole ipad crap needs to die. He's looking to see if there was goaltender interference and an offside on the play to potentially call for a review which is way more important and beneficial than the alternative. Like what do you people want? For him to stare down the players who aren't even paying attention to him anyway for the sake of your own preconceptions.

[Frank MetaMusil]

The last bastion of Gulutzan defenders, right here folks.

[Classic_Sniper]

“I’m not getting into any of that,” said Treliving when asked about the coach. “That’s an easy thing in sports to do.The first thing is to look at the coach. I think we’ve got a good coach. We’ve got some good players, but we’re all subject to scrutiny when a season goes like this.”

Treliving says it right here. Blaming coaches is easy. Especially if you're not tuned in to the rest of the league. Treliving is because that's his job whereas everyone else here is stuck in a bubble watching and picking apart every little thing that goes wrong with the coaching staff, yet guess what, every other coach in this league has flaws and makes the same mistakes.

Treliving is right, everyone is subject to scrutiny and he himself, will be on a shorter leash after this season. So he better make the right calls and pick up the right players this time around because if he doesn't, it'll likely be his neck on the chopping block next.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Treliving says it right here. Blaming coaches is easy. Especially if you're not tuned in to the rest of the league. Treliving is because that's his job whereas everyone else here is stuck in a bubble watching and picking apart every little thing that goes wrong with the coaching staff, yet guess what, every other coach in this league has flaws and makes the same mistakes.

Treliving is right, everyone is subject to scrutiny and he himself, will be on a shorter leash after this season. So he better make the right calls and pick up the right players this time around because if he doesn't, it'll likely be his neck on the chopping block next.

Yup and the right coach or he will be unemployed next year.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Just posted this in the other thread, but outside of 1 season, Hartley's teams came back less than Gulutzan's teams. So I don't think you can hang that on GG. 14-15 was a very fun, but very fluky season. Everything went right, we were getting all the bounces and I wouldn't put too much stock into Hartley's come back capability.





Hartley - Comeback wins:

12-13: 2

13-14: 11

14-15: 23

15-16: 10



Gulutzan - Comeback wins:

16-17: 16

17-18: 12





Lastly, this whole ipad crap needs to die. He's looking to see if there was goaltender interference and an offside on the play to potentially call for a review which is way more important and beneficial than the alternative. Like what do you people want? For him to stare down the players who aren't even paying attention to him anyway for the sake of your own preconceptions.

In addition to looking at iPad could he not also say a few words of encouragement to his team? Granted we don’t see him through the full 60 minutes but he seems to talk to players a lot less than other coaches

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’m not sure I follow you. Point was Flames have a lot of one dimensional players. You can’t tell me guys Hamonic are going to develop an offensive game?

Yes the true elite players on the team can hopefully round out their 200 foot games. It’s great that GG talked about it but if it doesn’t happen, you can either look at the player or the coaching.

Do you believe it is happening currently and staying the course will take us to the promised land?

Didn't say that at all ... in fact I said Gulutzan's effectiveness was up to each to decide, but that Monahan is improving.

The offensively elite can develop 200 foot games, and I think that's key.

I'm not too worried about Hamonic becoming Bobby Orr on a team that has Giordano and Hamilton.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by edslunch

In addition to looking at iPad could he not also say a few words of encouragement to his team? Granted we don’t see him through the full 60 minutes but he seems to talk to players a lot less than other coaches

You mean when the building is loud, filled with goal horns and people screaming and applauding? Oh yeah, I'm sure the players will definitely hear those words of encouragement.

You're right, we also don't see him for the entire 60 minutes. We also don't know what all the other coaches are like because we haven't seen all 82 games x 31 other teams. Lastly, I'm not even convinced talking more on the bench helps if at all. 90% of the time, players look completely zoned out or are too focused on the play to even listen to any audibles.

I think the whole criticizing GG for the ipad thing and the lack of talking on the bench and even the way he does his hair is completely absurd. Almost downright laughable at times.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by edslunch

In addition to looking at iPad could he not also say a few words of encouragement to his team? Granted we don’t see him through the full 60 minutes but he seems to talk to players a lot less than other coaches

Without knowing how the relationship between the coaches and players work it is pretty much impossible to know if these sorts of optical adjustments would have any impact on on-ice performance, and I suspect they would be negligible. I don't see this as an actual path to improvement.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

The last bastion of Gulutzan defenders, right here folks.

Countering irrelevant points and baseless complaints is not a defence. There are plenty of things about which to be critical of this coaching staff without resorting to half-truths and anecdotal nonsense.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

How a franchise treats players/coaches impacts whether other people want to be part of the organization. Running an outgoing coach into the ground isn't a good way to kick off the search for a new coach.

How a floundering franchise treats players/coaches/the community impacts whether I'll support them as a fan. If they start taking management cues from the Oilers, or from the the more hyperbolic fans among us, I'll lose my emotional attachment to this team, and fast.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Countering irrelevant points and baseless complaints is not a defence. There are plenty of things about which to be critical of this coaching staff without resorting to half-truths and anecdotal nonsense.

This is where I sit too.

I wonder if the team needs a bigger presence on the bench because they seem to have trouble managing games. That's a Gulutzan issue in that he can't seem to save them, but not a system as no coach would tell his players to abandon everything and panic when the other team scores.

I also wonder if the system is good for having the puck and generating zone time and chance stats without actually out chancing the opposition.

But this need to blame him for every single thing is just so out of hand. Looking an an ipad, not talking to his players, too few timeouts (when the league has seen a massive reduction in time outs since the need to have your timeout to challenge an off side)

They missed the playoffs, there's enough to point at without picking apart the carcass.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Just posted this in the other thread, but outside of 1 season, Hartley's teams came back less than Gulutzan's teams. So I don't think you can hang that on GG. 14-15 was a very fun, but very fluky season. Everything went right, we were getting all the bounces and I wouldn't put too much stock into Hartley's come back capability.


Hartley - Comeback wins:
12-13: 2
13-14: 11
14-15: 23
15-16: 10

Gulutzan - Comeback wins:
16-17: 16
17-18: 12


Lastly, this whole ipad crap needs to die. He's looking to see if there was goaltender interference and an offside on the play to potentially call for a review which is way more important and beneficial than the alternative. Like what do you people want? For him to stare down the players who aren't even paying attention to him anyway for the sake of your own preconceptions.

What in the hell are all the gazillion assistants for?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This is where I sit too.

I wonder if the team needs a bigger presence on the bench because they seem to have trouble managing games. That's a Gulutzan issue in that he can't seem to save them, but not a system as no coach would tell his players to abandon everything and panic when the other team scores.

I also wonder if the system is good for having the puck and generating zone time and chance stats without actually out chancing the opposition.

But this need to blame him for every single thing is just so out of hand. Looking an an ipad, not talking to his players, too few timeouts (when the league has seen a massive reduction in time outs since the need to have your timeout to challenge an off side)

They missed the playoffs, there's enough to point at without picking apart the carcass.

Isn't this what so many of us have been saying all along?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by redforever

Isn't this what so many of us have been saying all along?

Actually no ...

"Many of us" have been jumping to the conclusion without doing the analysis at all.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actually no ...

"Many of us" have been jumping to the conclusion without doing the analysis at all.

Even then, I think the problems with the team are a lot more subtle than most of us are capable to recognize. This is where Treliving will earn his money, and he is not doing his job unless he is taking an exhaustively evaluative approach.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actually no ...

"Many of us" have been jumping to the conclusion without doing the analysis at all.

I think it's pretty much exactly what many of us have been saying for the majority of the season. Don't discredit someone else's analysis simply because it took you longer to arrive at the position.