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Old 04-20-2017, 08:31 AM   #61
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Would anyone here offer Vegas our 1st round pick in exchange for them selecting Brouwer?
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:38 AM   #62
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Liked the signing. Gradually grew disenchanted over the season. Now looks like we have an anchor contract on our hands.

One thing to keep in mind is this move was made to address the woeful lack of RW depth in the franchise. UFA signings are almost always expensive efforts to make up for weaknesses in drafting and development. Brouwer's contract is a symptom of a deeper problem in the organization.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:38 AM   #63
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Agreed. And lets hope it stays that way. It's a bad contract, but isn't even close to the worst one in the division, let alone the rest of the league.

That's not exactly a selling point and he was a big disappointment, but an overpaid, slowing veteran is as common as a back-up goalie in the NHL.

Hopefully the Flames can dump him on Las Vegas, but I think they do know as much as we do. I don't know why they would. The only reason that makes sense is to get to the cap floor, but is that really going to be a problem? I don't know. Doesn't seem like it should be.
All you have to do marvel at Treliving is compare his worst signing that played all 4 games for the flames in the playoffs vs. his predecessors worst signing that played 0 games in the playoffs.

A functioning NHL player at this point makes the signing look amazing when compared to the 10 million dollars the Flames paid to Ladislav Smid and Dennis Wideman this year.

The Flames are paying Stajan 3.1 to, at this point, be a less than adequate 4th liner/healthy scratch. Next year I wonder if he even cracks the lineup for more than 30 games.

In the grand scheme of things, while the Brouwer contract is not good, it's not hte worst deal in the conference, the division or even on the team at this point.

The best we can hope for is that it becomes the worst contract on the team. A situation where Brouwer is the worst contract on the team is an enviable position from where the Flames are at now and is likely indicative of a solid playoff team.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:39 AM   #64
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Would anyone here offer Vegas our 1st round pick in exchange for them selecting Brouwer?
What about our 1st born? Or maybe throw in Monahan? Trade them our one Stanley Cup? Is that even possible?
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:40 AM   #65
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In many ways, the goat...he doesn't contribute as much on ice as he did last year based on metric. He didn't kick up a notch in the post season. While Elliott is the goat of the series, Brouwer is the new ripping boy officially.

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Old 04-20-2017, 10:28 AM   #66
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Nope, Byron had 20+ goals this season. Raymond took his spot.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:36 AM   #67
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All you have to do marvel at Treliving is compare his worst signing that played all 4 games for the flames in the playoffs vs. his predecessors worst signing that played 0 games in the playoffs.

A functioning NHL player at this point makes the signing look amazing when compared to the 10 million dollars the Flames paid to Ladislav Smid and Dennis Wideman this year.

The Flames are paying Stajan 3.1 to, at this point, be a less than adequate 4th liner/healthy scratch. Next year I wonder if he even cracks the lineup for more than 30 games.

In the grand scheme of things, while the Brouwer contract is not good, it's not hte worst deal in the conference, the division or even on the team at this point.

The best we can hope for is that it becomes the worst contract on the team. A situation where Brouwer is the worst contract on the team is an enviable position from where the Flames are at now and is likely indicative of a solid playoff team.
I guess you could argue Tre's worst signing played 0 games for the team this year. And will be paid again next year to play zero games.

I agree that Brouwer's deal is not the worst in the conference or division. It is the worst on the team unless we're still counting Raymond.

Last edited by Strange Brew; 04-20-2017 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:44 AM   #68
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Gaudreau 2pts, -4, 4gp
Fair or not, I put a lot of that on Ferland. Anaheim is a punishing team to play against, and Ferland's role in this series should have been to make sure Johnny had room to play out there.

If we were playing the Hawks or Oilers, then for sure, try to be an offensive threat... but against the Ducks, we needed someone riding shotgun on that line in a big way, and it just didn't happen.

Johnny is the #1 LW on this team, and is the biggest offensive threat we have, but he's 5'9 150lbs. It is what it is, and guys like that need to know that they'll have the time and space they need to do what they do. If he believes he's got the time and space, he'll light the other team up, even if he actually doesn't have it. The inverse is also true though. Hit him a few times and he'll start to believe he doesn't have any room, even if he does, and that's when he starts getting rid of the puck instead of holding on to it.

In fairness to Ferland, it might have been a coaching thing, but regardless, Johnny knew he was going to get hammered if he held on to the puck, and that just can't happen.


Edit: Also, playoff Brouwer was slightly better than regular season Brouwer, in much the same way as the smell of your own cat's litterbox is slightly more tolerable than the smell of someone else's.

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Old 04-20-2017, 10:47 AM   #69
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Would anyone here offer Vegas our 1st round pick in exchange for them selecting Brouwer?
No way.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:57 AM   #70
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Would anyone here offer Vegas our 1st round pick in exchange for them selecting Brouwer?
That is too much. Do Flames really need the space next year?
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:57 AM   #71
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Perhaps he can be packaged for MAF?
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:04 AM   #72
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Fair or not, I put a lot of that on Ferland. Anaheim is a punishing team to play against, and Ferland's role in this series should have been to make sure Johnny had room to play out there.

If we were playing the Hawks or Oilers, then for sure, try to be an offensive threat... but against the Ducks, we needed someone riding shotgun on that line in a big way, and it just didn't happen.

Johnny is the #1 LW on this team, and is the biggest offensive threat we have, but he's 5'9 150lbs. It is what it is, and guys like that need to know that they'll have the time and space they need to do what they do. If he believes he's got the time and space, he'll light the other team up, even if he actually doesn't have it. The inverse is also true though. Hit him a few times and he'll start to believe he doesn't have any room, even if he does, and that's when he starts getting rid of the puck instead of holding on to it.

In fairness to Ferland, it might have been a coaching thing, but regardless, Johnny knew he was going to get hammered if he held on to the puck, and that just can't happen.


Edit: Also, playoff Brouwer was slightly better than regular season Brouwer, in much the same way as the smell of your own cat's litterbox is slightly more tolerable than the smell of someone else's.
that's really going out of your way to find an excuse for Johnny.
He is paid to be a front line player that produces. Period.
He is paid to drive the offense on that line.
He wasn't good enough. Not by a long shot.
No need to give him excuses. He just needs to be better.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:07 AM   #73
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I was happy with the signing.
I was okay with the money.
I accepted his poor start.
I forgave him his disappointing season.
I expected to see the real Troy in the playoffs.

But now I'm all out of credits for Mr. Brouwer.
Pretty much this. I didn't mind the signing and was on his side all season. But it's always a red flag when you hear an interview where a player defends his bad play during the season because he can ''turn it on'' in the playoffs. A weird thing to say for a guy who's done that exactly ONCE in his career at the age of 30. I think he bought into the headlines of him being a playoff performer a bit too much, considering he was never like that before. Pisani and Bickell got big paydays after their runs, and we all know how those turned out.

Not the ugliest of contracts. But not the best. Best case scenario is for either Vegas to pick him, or for him to prove himself next season if he sticks around.

But he's an example of why I have zero issue with GM's low-balling players who are looking for contracts at any point in their careers. How many of these 30+ UFA contracts actually work out? 1/5?

Every GM in the league should have a framed photo of Brouwer in his desk drawer. Next time his agent represents one of his clients during contract negotiations and asks for the moon, all the GM has to do is pull out his photo of Brouwer, point at it, and wag his finger soup-nazi style NO.

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Old 04-20-2017, 11:20 AM   #74
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I guess you could argue Tre's worst signing played 0 games for the team this year. And will be paid again next year to play zero games.

I agree that Brouwer's deal is not the worst in the conference or division. It is the worst on the team unless we're still counting Raymond.
I suppose on one hand that is true. The raymond signing turned out to be awful.

On the other hand, it was a correctable mistake. It's unfortunate it costs the flames a million bucks against their cap hit but it's a far cry from a NMC holding healthy scratch making 6 million dollars a year.

So, treliving's 3 biggest whiffs have been:

1) Signing Raymond
2) Waiving Byron
3) Signing Brouwer
Honourable Mention: Brandon Bollig

?

Pretty respectable as compared to recent flames history:

Feaster:

1) Trading Iginla and Boumeester for some trading cards
2) Signing Wideman
3) Trying and Failing to trade the pick that would become Monahan
Honourable Mention: Trying to Sign Brad Richards to a 9 year contract.

Daryl Sutter:
1) Making two 2nd round picks in his entire tenure, Wahl and Ramholt
2) Phaneuf Trade
3) Jokinen
Honourable Mention: Ales Kotalik
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:28 AM   #75
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So, treliving's 3 biggest whiffs have been:

1) Signing Raymond
2) Waiving Byron
3) Signing Brouwer
Honourable Mention: Brandon Bollig
Pretty hard not to include Goaltending as the one of the biggest blunders. Everyone knew the 3-headed monster was a dumb idea and we whiffed on our 2nd refresh in net this year. Hopefully 3rd try is the charm. And not saying Elliott and Johnson didn't appear to be a good attempt at the time...but he's responsible for the end results and it blew up horribly.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:31 AM   #76
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12 goalies in 4 years is a huge GM blunder, 3 of which are his years.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:34 AM   #77
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What stat would you like to use?

He's right....its not like Gaudreau earned his wage out there either.
This thread is about Brouwer and how he's been useless all year from start to finish.

Gaudreau put up 61 points in 72 games.

Just another example of Flash Walken and drive by off topic negativity.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:34 AM   #78
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Pretty hard not to include Goaltending as the one of the biggest blunders. Everyone knew the 3-headed monster was a dumb idea and we whiffed on our 2nd refresh in net this year. Hopefully 3rd try is the charm. And not saying Elliott and Johnson didn't appear to be a good attempt at the time...but he's responsible for the end results and it blew up horribly.
Ok, so what position is that on the list, honourable mention? Worse than Byron?

In my opinion the worst, most crippling long term move he's made was signing giordano, but I don't think many will agree with me on that so I'm trying to gauge what everyone feels is so awful about treliving that he somehow doesn't look freakin' incredible when compared with the previous decade of Flames managers in a cap era.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:35 AM   #79
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that's really going out of your way to find an excuse for Johnny.
He is paid to be a front line player that produces. Period.
He is paid to drive the offense on that line.
He wasn't good enough. Not by a long shot.
No need to give him excuses. He just needs to be better.
It's not so much that he didn't play well that worries me. Most players endure streaks. What worries me is his reaction. The failure to adapt. The frustration. Yapping at refs. Slamming the door to the bench.

Teams have adjusted to Gaudreau, now he has to adjust. Not pout or throw tantrums. Adjust.

And we all laughed off his bad diet and lack of commitment to training. He's so talented, he doesn't need to do that stuff. Wrong. He needs to get fitter, faster, and stronger.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:36 AM   #80
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Would anyone here offer Vegas our 1st round pick in exchange for them selecting Brouwer?
No but I would trade SHINKARUK to make it happen.
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