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View Poll Results: Who should start Wednesday
Elliott 128 31.37%
Johnson 108 26.47%
Gillies 172 42.16%
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:19 PM   #281
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Except they have not.

Even though the outcome of this series is not what I had hoped for to this point, as a fan I am pretty happy with how the team has played, and how they look heading into the future. I honestly don't think that there are many major changes to be made: most of the improvement will continue to come from within the organisation.
Agreed, Ducks have certainly not controlled the series yet we are down 3 to nothing to a team with a very undermanned defence. So its not all roses either.

In terms of what Flames can control, we have been poor at:

1) goaltending
2) lack of finish/poise/killer instinct in close games

Fix for number one probably doesn't come internally next year. Unless you just roll with Elliott again and hope for more consistency.

You hope number two comes with more experience. But that is no guarantee.

I guess the other part is that our PP has been excellent and really driven our offence. So 5 on 5 against a depleted D, are we totally happy with how Flames look? If and when the series is over, we've really got to think on that IMO.

But for crying out loud, law of averages says Flames should win game 4.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:24 PM   #282
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lollllllllllll you haven't been watching have you.

Two goals in Game 2, a goal in game three, and just generally not being consistent and giving your team the confidence in the first save or some rebound control is really a contributing effect that trickles down through the roster.

If you've ever played the game, you'd know how demoralizing it is from a bad goal when you're controlling the game. It's easy to be thrown off your game and lose confidence in game.

I'm not saying that it's all his fault, but he has been a big factor in our downfall in these playoffs.
This is true, I agree. But you would also agree that good teams shake it off and don't fold their tent, knowing their goalie has been their for them during the year. If the Flames bench is full of guys that will hang their head when a questionable goal is scored, than we have a long ways to go here.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:27 PM   #283
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There is playing well and there is winning. In today's NHL its hard for one team to completely dominate so its about executing when you have momentum and weathering the storm when you don't. The Ducks know this, and from that standpoint they have dominated the series by executing at the key moments. We can talk about possession stats all day long but it means nothing without executing the game breaking moments. The Flames are on the verge of being swept, in no way does that indicate being the better team.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:31 PM   #284
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This is true, I agree. But you would also agree that good teams shake it off and don't fold their tent, knowing their goalie has been their for them during the year. If the Flames bench is full of guys that will hang their head when a questionable goal is scored, than we have a long ways to go here.
I do agree a good team does shake it off.

The problem is we haven't had a goalie that was there for us for the entire year. Elliott had a good stretch and was consistent for the second half of the year, but players could also remember how the first half of the year went and how frustrating that was. Also, it was clearly evident last game he lost his composure and looked very shaky out there.

The fact that it looked like the guys were demoralized, this is what happens with a young inexperienced roster. It's up to the veterans to get everyone motivated back up and firing on all cylinders, but when emotions, frustrations, and stakes are high, it happens and is part of the game.

I look at it as a perfect storm of a couple poor goals, poor rebounds, questionable penalties, questionable goal calls (in the players mind) all mid game can make a player feel like everything is against them which makes it's tough to power through.

The strong experienced players can power through that, the inexperienced players will have to learn to shake it off through experience or from the veterans/captains.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:32 PM   #285
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Agreed, Ducks have certainly not controlled the series yet we are down 3 to nothing to a team with a very undermanned defence. So its not all roses either.

In terms of what Flames can control, we have been poor at:

1) goaltending
2) lack of finish/poise/killer instinct in close games

Fix for number one probably doesn't come internally next year. Unless you just roll with Elliott again and hope for more consistency.
Agreed. I am not especially worried about how the issue of goaltending will be addressed for next year in the light of special circumstances onset by the expansion draft this summer. I think in the long run—in another two or three years when this team is entering the centre of its competitive window—one of Gillies or Parsons will be the difference here. So, yes—ultimately an internal solution.

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You hope number two comes with more experience. But that is no guarantee.
Do you think that the Flames would find themselves in this position against any other playoff team in the WC? I sure don't. I am encouraged that the issues in this series for the Flames have been almost entirely psychological, and those are the sorts of things I expect to change as the team gains experience.

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I guess the other part is that our PP has been excellent and really driven our offence. So 5 on 5 against a depleted D, are we totally happy with how Flames look? If and when the series is over, we've really got to think on that IMO.
Sure, but if the series is over tonight, what sorts of changes are you expecting? The core is young enough and shows enough promise that I don't see any significant changes over the summer. I expect the team to be better next year by virtue of natural progression, and I don't think this is a remotely unreasonable expectation.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:37 PM   #286
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The guy who won the Cup with the Penguins last year is younger than Gilles too. But that is the entire reason why CliffFletcher went with that specifically specific scenario. Because even he knows young goalies get starts in pressure situations and needed to change the parameters to maintain the illusion of being right.
Age =/= experience. As has been pointed out already, Murray had 72 games of AHL experience, including a run of absolutely dominating the league, before he got his shot at the NHL. Then he won 9 of 11 games in the regular season with a .930 save pct before getting a shot at the playoffs.

But hey, maybe the worst franchise in the NHL at developing goalies should defy the practices that have been proven to actually work (70 to 150 games of seasoning in the AHL) and throw Gillies in. Because impatient fans.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:38 PM   #287
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This is true, I agree. But you would also agree that good teams shake it off and don't fold their tent, knowing their goalie has been their for them during the year. If the Flames bench is full of guys that will hang their head when a questionable goal is scored, than we have a long ways to go here.
YES. And that is a big part of how this series has unfolded. But in my opinion that is NOT AT ALL the same thing as the other team "controlling the play."

The reason the Flames are down three games is almost totally psychological. The problem is not that they are outmatched by a superior team; it is rather that they are losing their control on the game because of mental lapses and occasional poor decisions. Were it the former, there would be little they could do about it, but because it is so much the latter, the Flames really do still dictate the course of their own destiny in this series.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:39 PM   #288
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Has it been announced yet as to who will start in goal tonight?
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:42 PM   #289
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Has it been announced yet as to who will start in goal tonight?
Calgary Flames‏ @NHLFlames
Glen Gulutzan has also confirmed Brian Elliott will get the start. #ANAvsCGY
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:53 PM   #290
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Put yourself in Elliott's shoes.... wouldn't you be embarrassed and highly motivated to redeem yourself to your teammates?

Moose is the right call
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:33 PM   #291
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Put yourself in Elliott's shoes.... wouldn't you be embarrassed and highly motivated to redeem yourself to your teammates?

Moose is the right call
I don't doubt his competitiveness. In fact, he's one of the most competitive goaltenders I've ever seen. But I don't think it's about motivation, he should've been motivated after his poor outing in game 2.

To me, It's his ability to track the puck and his rebound control that is in question. These are just technical issues that he's had his entire career to perfect and he hasn't been able to. Do You have the confidence in him to win 4 straight against the Ducks? If you don't, then he shouldn't be playing. I'll tell you one thing, he better have a short leash.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:44 PM   #292
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This is true, I agree. But you would also agree that good teams shake it off and don't fold their tent, knowing their goalie has been their for them during the year. If the Flames bench is full of guys that will hang their head when a questionable goal is scored, than we have a long ways to go here.
It depends on the situation. 1 goal? Yes, but if he's given up multiple in the game it demoralizes you. I think that was the case on Monday. The team had been playing great and it seemed like it was a game cause Anaheim would go down and throw a puck on net and it would find its way in either on the shot or from a poor rebound.

I do however think the leadership on this team is weak and their is nobody on the bench that will step up and start pushing and motivating his guys. I like Giordano and thinks he is more of a lead from example type of guy but sometimes you need your captain to stand up on the bench and tell the boys snap out of it.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:45 PM   #293
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I don't doubt his competitiveness. In fact, he's one of the most competitive goaltenders I've ever seen. But I don't think it's about motivation, he should've been motivated after his poor outing in game 2.

To me, It's his ability to track the puck and his rebound control that is in question. These are just technical issues that he's had his entire career to perfect and he hasn't been able to. Do You have the confidence in him to win 4 straight against the Ducks? If you don't, then he shouldn't be playing. I'll tell you one thing, he better have a short leash.
you'd be switching from a guy who you have low confidence in to a guy whom your confidence is based on one NHL regular season game...

as mentioned, murray gets brought up a lot, but in addition to a 10 game audition at the end of the season, he was killing it in the AHL with a 1.58 GAA and .941 SVV compared to Gillies 2.93 GAA and .910 SVV (SIAP)

not saying he isn't a great prospect, but with your season on the line, I don't know how you question picking Elliott...

I think that GG needs to keep him on a very short leash though...
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:30 PM   #294
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I would've given it to Johnson. The Ducks are now in Elliott's head. He's too fragile to go in.

Unless Johnson is still hurt or cannot clean up his glove hand, then maybe you put in Elliott. But it's not deserving because Elliott did not help the team on Monday night - he single-handedly hurt them.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:37 PM   #295
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you'd be switching from a guy who you have low confidence in to a guy whom your confidence is based on one NHL regular season game...

as mentioned, murray gets brought up a lot, but in addition to a 10 game audition at the end of the season, he was killing it in the AHL with a 1.58 GAA and .941 SVV compared to Gillies 2.93 GAA and .910 SVV (SIAP)

not saying he isn't a great prospect, but with your season on the line, I don't know how you question picking Elliott...

I think that GG needs to keep him on a very short leash though...
One regular season game? Chad Johnson has played a ton of games this season and saved our season in November. He has probably stolen more games for the Flames this season then Elliott as well. I just don't trust Elliott right now to get the job done, he's on a long losing streak against the ducks and his technical game is the issue right now. The Ducks don't know too much about Chad Johnson right now but have exploited all the weaknesses of Elliott. Trying Johnson could save our season like in November.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:39 PM   #296
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Weak move by GG. Elliott playing all but ensures this thing ends by game 5.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:27 PM   #297
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Weak move by GG. Elliott playing all but ensures this thing ends by game 5.
So you think Elliot is good enough to win game four but not game five?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:34 PM   #298
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Put yourself in Elliott's shoes.... wouldn't you be embarrassed and highly motivated to redeem yourself to your teammates?

Moose is the right call
Was he lacking motivation last game when he let in five? The motivation of killing his teams season is going to be what makes the difference?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:58 PM   #299
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So you think Elliot is good enough to win game four but not game five?
The way I see it a beer league goalie would get a W tonight. Team will be highly motivated, and the ducks likely not as much. Getting the 4th W is always the hardest game to win, especially on the road and moreso 4th consecutive.

Game 5 is going to be the decider, and no way do I think Elliott wins game 5 in Anaheim to break this fkn curse.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:07 PM   #300
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Johnson looked terrible down the stretch in the very limited action he did see. Johnson is also coming off an injury in which he has not seen game action since. I can understand why the coaches might prefer Elliot, although I'm sure they are wishing they had a better option.

I'd expect Elliot to be on a very short leash.
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