[Rumour] Canadian Division, you say?

[djsFlames]

Same ####, different year.

Flames have outperformed most of the Canadian teams for most of the last 5 years, add a top 5 starter and still get no cred.

Team always does better when they don't believe, so I'm glad. They came out flat when the media finally gave them some recognition going into last season.

Conversely the oilers typically flop under the overrating and sky high expectations, so keep it coming.

[Yrebmi]

Flames seem to play on a year off a year hockey. Stupid a superstition as it seems we're due an on year.

[dino7c]

Team that played .608 hockey under Ward

Brodie, Hamonic, Talbot, Janko OUT
Tanev, Vali, Markstrom, Leivo IN

I'll take my chances

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Toronto
Calgary
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Vancouver
Montreal
Ottawa

I'm not sure why anyone would be talking about Carey Price as a factor when he hasn't been good for years, while ignoring Hellebuyck being the best goalie in the world.

[ricardodw]

People act like the Flames have never signed a quality goalie that was going to solve their problem in net.


There was a similar UFA signing in 2014 .... only 6 years ago. The Flames got the best UFA goalie Hiller outside of 33 year old Ryan Miller.

Hiller signed for 2 year at 4.5M per season


Hiller had played in 50 games with a 29-13-7 record, five shutouts, 2.48 goals against average and a .911% save percentage age 31

Markstrom played in 43 games with a 23-16-4 record, five shutouts, 2.75 goals against average and a .918% save percentage age 29

Hiller was made expendable in Anahiem by Gibson much in the same way Markstrom was made expendable by Demko.

Goalies are goalies ..... Hellebuyck pretty much the best goalie in the world right now was pretty average just one year prior

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's undeniable they have improved their depth and goaltending.

But my big concern is that this core group has gotten totally stale and could take a big step back. A change to that group could have totally energized the remaining players and maybe changed the dynamic.

I really like the young depth on D, and that's probably my area of greatest excitement. But that is tempered with the belief that we really don't have any elite defensemen to start the year. You do a ranking of best D in the league and you're getting rather deep in the list before a Flames comes up. Hopefully Andersson or Valimaki (or Hanifin) grow into that.

I sure am ready to get the season started. Really can't stand to read any more arguments about Sam Bennett.

I don't love the core either, but they took a pretty pronounced step back last season.

Not sure how much room they have to take another step back, especially given the age of the four forwards in question.

Concern that they don't take a step forward though. I would think they won't be at the 18-19 heights nor the 19-20 frustration level as a guess.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't love the core either, but they took a pretty pronounced step back last season.

Not sure how much room they have to take another step back, especially given the age of the four forwards in question.

Concern that they don't take a step forward though. I would think they won't be at the 18-19 heights nor the 19-20 frustration level as a guess.

Isn't that pretty much it though. If they fall in the middle between 18-19 and 19-20, while adding Markstrom, then you would have to think they are competing for the division. On top of that you have the progression of Tkachuk, Dube, Mangipane, with Bennett as a bit of a wild card.

If all the above happens it would mean a step forward over the 19-20 lineup that impact 3 lines.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

People act like the Flames have never signed a quality goalie that was going to solve their problem in net.


There was a similar UFA signing in 2014 .... only 6 years ago. The Flames got the best UFA goalie Hiller outside of 33 year old Ryan Miller.

Hiller signed for 2 year at 4.5M per season


Hiller had played in 50 games with a 29-13-7 record, five shutouts, 2.48 goals against average and a .911% save percentage age 31

Markstrom played in 43 games with a 23-16-4 record, five shutouts, 2.75 goals against average and a .918% save percentage age 29

Hiller was made expendable in Anahiem by Gibson much in the same way Markstrom was made expendable by Demko.

Goalies are goalies ..... Hellebuyck pretty much the best goalie in the world right now was pretty average just one year prior

Not sure what your point is.

The Flames had to get to the salary cap floor, needed a goaltender and brought in Hiller sure. He had vertigo and concussion issues in recent seasons. He was a risky gamble but a good use of addition to get to the cap floor given it was only a two year term.

But they were literally and ground zero of a rebuild.

Nothing is comparable to today's team.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't love the core either, but they took a pretty pronounced step back last season.

Not sure how much room they have to take another step back, especially given the age of the four forwards in question.

Concern that they don't take a step forward though. I would think they won't be at the 18-19 heights nor the 19-20 frustration level as a guess.

I am pretty much with you there. I just don't know how many times you can go to battle with the same group of people before they become resigned to the fact that they can't get it done. Which could affect the regular season too.

Maybe it takes an Andersson or a Mangiapane becoming one of the team's best players. Maybe Tkachuk takes it to another level. Something has to chnage.

I would have been Ok with trading a guy like Monahan for some draft capital and signing a veteran forward short term. Yes no doubt you take a step back talent wise, but maybe it jolts the team and then you have the trade deadline to assess where (or if) you want to add.

[GioforPM]

Hiller had played in 50 games with a 29-13-7 record, five shutouts, 2.48 goals against average and a .911% save percentage age 31

Markstrom played in 43 games with a 23-16-4 record, five shutouts, 2.75 goals against average and a .918% save percentage age 29

What teams did those guys play for again?

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I am pretty much with you there. I just don't know how many times you can go to battle with the same group of people before they become resigned to the fact that they can't get it done. Which could affect the regular season too.

Maybe it takes an Andersson or a Mangiapane becoming one of the team's best players. Maybe Tkachuk takes it to another level. Something has to chnage.

I would have been Ok with trading a guy like Monahan for some draft capital and signing a veteran forward short term. Yes no doubt you take a step back talent wise, but maybe it jolts the team and then you have the trade deadline to assess where (or if) you want to add.

At the start of the offseason I was clamouring for a core shake up as well. I’ve come to accept the fact that this is likely the group we start the season with and admittedly have become more optimistic. I like the depth signings Tre made, and I like a lot of our young players and how they’ve progressed (Mang, Dube, Anderson and the potential of Valimaki.)

The addition of Markstrom HAS to improve our goaltending, and I don’t think Monny and Gaudreau will have another terrible season. The added depth will hopefully free them a bit more this year to work their magic.

I also really like Backlund whether he’s on what people would call the second line, or third line. I think he gets criminally under rated around here by some.

If our young guys continue to progress, and Jonny and monny bounce back to close to normal production, I think we make some noise this year. If they lay another egg, I think the axe will fall 100% next off season

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by ---Hatrick---

At the start of the offseason I was clamouring for a core shake up as well. I’ve come to accept the fact that this is likely the group we start the season with and admittedly have become more optimistic. I like the depth signings Tre made, and I like a lot of our young players and how they’ve progressed (Mang, Dube, Anderson and the potential of Valimaki.)

The addition of Markstrom HAS to improve our goaltending, and I don’t think Monny and Gaudreau will have another terrible season. The added depth will hopefully free them a bit more this year to work their magic.

I also really like Backlund whether he’s on what people would call the second line, or third line. I think he gets criminally under rated around here by some.

If our young guys continue to progress, and Jonny and monny bounce back to close to normal production, I think we make some noise this year. If they lay another egg, I think the axe will fall 100% next off season

I would argue the core was shaken up.

Brodie was part of the core and he's out. Hamonic was supposed to be part of the core but didn't pan out.

Tanev replaced those two guys (for better or worse) and is now part of the core IMO. Markstrom of course is now part of the core and is likely the centerpiece.

If Valimaki continues his progression, he'll join in as a core piece.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I would argue the core was shaken up.

Brodie was part of the core and he's out. Hamonic was supposed to be part of the core but didn't pan out.

Tanev replaced those two guys (for better or worse) and is now part of the core IMO. Markstrom of course is now part of the core and is likely the centerpiece.

If Valimaki continues his progression, he'll join in as a core piece.

You’re right about Brodie. I never considered Hamonic as part of the core personally.

When I think of core of this team, I think of Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, Gio, Bennett and Brodie. These guys have all been here for what we would consider the “rebuild” and this is the group I was more referring to that would need a shake up if they lay an egg this season.

Like you stated though, there has been some nice additions this off season, and some added depth along with a starting top FA goaltender. That’s why I’m feeling more optimistic about this group going into the season. I’d love to see this core surrounded by good depth go on a nice run

[Enoch Root]

For me, the difference in the core lies in how much we will need to depend on it.

Over the last 2 seasons, our depth was weak, as was our goaltending, and we relied almost solely on the top 5 forwards - the Flames were as good as those guys could carry them.

Not only is the goaltending solidified, but so has the depth. Adding Leivo, Simon and Nordstrom will help. But maybe even more importantly, Dube, Mangiapane and Bennett continue to grow as players.

This team is MUCH deeper and the lineup no longer has any holes.

I think that if the big 5 are only as good as last year, the Flames are a better team. But if they can rebound at all, and be somewhere in between what they were over the last 2 seasons, the Flames will be closer to VGS than they are to EDM or VAN.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ---Hatrick---

You’re right about Brodie. I never considered Hamonic as part of the core personally.

When I think of core of this team, I think of Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, Gio, Bennett and Brodie. These guys have all been here for what we would consider the “rebuild” and this is the group I was more referring to that would need a shake up if they lay an egg this season.

Like you stated though, there has been some nice additions this off season, and some added depth along with a starting top FA goaltender. That’s why I’m feeling more optimistic about this group going into the season. I’d love to see this core surrounded by good depth go on a nice run

Leaving out Lindholm was probably just a mistake.

The good news in my mind is the team continues to add assets and draft well. If they can't find a move to alter the core through trade now, at least if they continue to see emerging talent options will open.

Huge to get big steps from Mangiapane, Dube, and Andersson last season. Hopefully Valimaki is added to that emerging group as well ... fingers crossed that Bennett is a solid support third line guy and not role-less once again.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Leaving out Lindholm was probably just a mistake.

The good news in my mind is the team continues to add assets and draft well. If they can't find a move to alter the core through trade now, at least if they continue to see emerging talent options will open.

Huge to get big steps from Mangiapane, Dube, and Andersson last season. Hopefully Valimaki is added to that emerging group as well ... fingers crossed that Bennett is a solid support third line guy and not role-less once again.

Lol, yes. Absolutely

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Flames seem to play on a year off a year hockey. Stupid a superstition as it seems we're due an on year.

Every year the needle moves a little bit further which is nice to see

2013 the team tears it down by trading Iggy, Bouw, Tanguay and Kipper retires and the rebuild begins

2014- not surprising they finish in the bottom 4

2015- shocking season has them sneaking into the playoffs. They finish third in the Pacific but have the lowest point total of all playoff teams

2016- they are back at the bottom with a bottom 5 finish

2017- they bounce back and are able to take the first wildcard spot

2018- they fall apart late and miss the playoffs finishing 10th in the west

2019- they win the division and have the highest point total in the Western conference

2020- they fall back to the bubble but still are good enough to make the playoffs winning the 8-9 qualifying round and finishing 6th in the west when the playoffs officially start

2021- should be another year where they win the division

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Every year the needle moves a little bit further which is nice to see

2013 the team tears it down by trading Iggy, Bouw, Tanguay and Kipper retires and the rebuild begins

2014- not surprising they finish in the bottom 4

2015- shocking season has them sneaking into the playoffs. They finish third in the Pacific but have the lowest point total of all playoff teams

2016- they are back at the bottom with a bottom 5 finish

2017- they bounce back and are able to take the first wildcard spot

2018- they fall apart late and miss the playoffs finishing 10th in the west

2019- they win the division and have the highest point total in the Western conference

2020- they fall back to the bubble but still are good enough to make the playoffs winning the 8-9 qualifying round and finishing 6th in the west when the playoffs officially start

2021- should be another year where they win the division Cup

Because why not.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Because why not.

Agreed. At this point a second or third round run would also be nice. At least the team is at the stage of a step back still means playoffs

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Team that played .608 hockey under Ward

Brodie, Hamonic, Talbot, Janko OUT
Tanev, Vali, Markstrom, Leivo IN

I'll take my chances

So that .608 winning percentage gets you to a 99.7 point season, if you're calculating it the way I think you did. Given that small a sample size, it's not something I'd be trotting out as a killer argument.

Your point on the IN's and OUT's is a good one. Hard not to see that as an overall upgrade. Of course Valimaki was with the club last year, just injured. Someone could get injured this year too. Would they be an OUT?