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Old 10-08-2019, 07:11 PM   #41
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just found out that pedo gary glitter is going to make big money off this movie.

no excuse for using his music.
No one gives a f about Michael Jackson, makes me sick when I hear any of his songs. Be nice if people stopped bull####ting themselves.

Agree with the comment on rewatchability but in my opinion Joker is the best movie ever done about any comic buffoonery type character. Beautifully filmed, great pacing and unfolds well, Phoenix is incredible. Absolutely loved it.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:09 AM   #42
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My thoughts:
  • Phoenix was incredible but I think the criticisms of “overacting” are valid
  • Beautifully shot and love the vintage feel
  • Best live action Gotham ever put to screen
  • Didn’t love Thomas Wayne as a “bad guy” but worked with the story
  • The love interest revealed as a delusional was poorly executed
  • Question: did he up killing her and the little girl when he left their apartment? It isn’t clear but in the scene immediately after he’s sitting on the couch acting insane and you can hear police sirens pulling up and someone banging on a nearby door. Also they are never shown in the movie after that point. I think it’s suggested but perhaps the studio made it so it wasn’t clear as that would be very dark?
  • Don’t love the “was it all in his head” aspect at the end. The more I think about it the more I feel that is the case for the entire movie which to me is cheap cop out
  • Don’t think that Thomas Wayne was his father and it was all made up by his mom
  • Still not sure if his appearance on the TV show was real at all – seemed a bit too unrealistic that they would let him sit there that long acting nuts
  • Loved the final scene with him laying on the cop car paralleled with Bruce kneeling over his dead parents. Joker and Batman born at the same moment from the same chaos.

Overall great move. 8/10.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:21 AM   #43
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See and I think that part was definitely real. It’s not like they talked for another 15 minutes. We’re talking 2-3 minutes tops. And Murray even told his producer not to cut away. I could see them calling the cops but for the amount of time the convo took it isn’t unreasonable that the cops weren’t there yet. Especially when you consider they were busy dealing with riots.
There would be security in the studio though, no?

Murray warned him of the rules before going on air to keep it clean. As well, during the live interview, he chastised Arthur for inappropriate material/content, then moments later he’s keeping the cameras rolling amidst discussion of killing the three on the subway and being happy about it.

I’m not really taking a side on whether this was a legit sequence or not, but Murray’s tolerance for the material seemed to 180 mid interview which was quite contradictory of him.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:40 PM   #44
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Man, I guess I'm in the minority but I thought it was a self-indulgent piece of crap, lacking any semblance of subtlely. I debated leaving an hour into it.
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:01 AM   #45
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For anyone who might think, based on the ending, that it was all a dream or a made-up story, I would challenge that. Arthur was able to identify in his story when he was hallucinating / having delusional moments by his relationship with Sophie, if he was narrating the whole story itself. People with psychopathy and/or delusional disorder cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is not but can function/behave normally in other situations. If the whole story was a dream, the identification of the delusions would be highly unlikely in memory recall, able to distinguish what happened and what didn't.

Additionally, the dream sequence doesn't work for the DC story arc. If the whole thing was a dream or made up story, then the events of Thomas Wayne/Batman would never have actually happened, and that part of the universe would cease to exist. Unless you consider the whole Batman empire to be a "dream" as well.

Very powerful movie. I would say that because of my day-to-day community, mental health (and neglecting it) has framed a big part of how I view the world. Joker - while stylized - is almost a warning shot about what could happen when people fall through the cracks, combined with government austerity and social tension. I think many people would be surprised at how much more actually happens in our hospitals, clinics, and neighborhoods that you don't see with regard to mental health issues, or even the serious scale of people it affects.
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:04 AM   #46
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One more thing, they couldn't have picked a better soundtrack composer for this film. Hildur Guðnadóttir has got to be one of the best at creating brooding atmospheric tension.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:54 PM   #47
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Just watched it tonight and wow, what a great flick. There are rarely character development films made these days which make it to theatres, so to have this one done in mainstream was an accomplishment. Set in the era it was, was smart and very well done. Next to no plot holes too. Ledger was good but Phoenix was great. So well shot, great story and writing, and so many tie ins with the story. Loved how they had Phoenix leaning against the window in the police car at the end. Oddly looked like Ledger with the angle it was shot in, and the paint. Really amazingly well done to me. I'd easily put it in the top 5 movies of all time for me.
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:27 PM   #48
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Pretty good movie. I enjoyed the colour grading and handheld camera work. Phoenix was great. I'm not sure if the rest of the casting was the best. De Niro actually acted for once and didn't play himself, that is, until near the end when "De Niro" pretty much came out and ruined the character. Marc Maron also played Marc Maron and was unnecessary. I assume the character at the gate was Alfred, but he did not seem very Alfred-like. I agree with the others saying that the Waynes weren't portrayed in the right light, but I guess if it's coming from the Joker's viewpoint it makes more sense, and that might explain Alfred as well.

The timeline also is strange. Bruce looks about 10 and Joker looks about 38, so when they clash as Batman and Joker, Joker would be in his 50s... Which might be the case? but not in the Nolan movies.

I enjoyed the undertones of reflecting subjects that face today's society with the increasing wealth gap, rich politicians, violence, mental health, mob mentality, bullying, and others I'm probably missing.

I'm not a fan of superhero movies in general, but this is one that I really wanted to see, probably because it's not a typical superhero movie. It was a solid film, but for some reason, it fell a little flat for me... I think it was in the right direction, but it could have been pushed further, or maybe better casting would have done it (minus Phoenix of course, because he was fantastic.) 7.5/10

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Old 10-12-2019, 06:59 PM   #49
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Just saw it, and liked it. One thing that bothered me. To me at least the Joker is very smart. Totally insane but still a very smart in his tactics. I didn’t get that vibe from this version. Batman would take him down in no time
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:03 PM   #50
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Just saw it, and liked it. One thing that bothered me. To me at least the Joker is very smart. Totally insane but still a very smart in his tactics. I didn’t get that vibe from this version. Batman would take him down in no time
To be fair, Batman would be too busy playing on the monkey bars during recess to take him down in this version.
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Old 10-12-2019, 07:39 PM   #51
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To be fair, Batman would be too busy playing on the monkey bars during recess to take him down in this version.
That’s fair... I guess, I just wouldn’t believe this version had that mental capacity to learn it. Nothing he does is planned or calculated. All just off the cuff and reactionary. Just even the last part where he was going to kill himself, he’s on the fly switched it. I get it makes for a better movie this way, but I just don’t relate to the joker I know.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:44 AM   #52
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That’s fair... I guess, I just wouldn’t believe this version had that mental capacity to learn it. Nothing he does is planned or calculated. All just off the cuff and reactionary. Just even the last part where he was going to kill himself, he’s on the fly switched it. I get it makes for a better movie this way, but I just don’t relate to the joker I know.
In all honesty you have very valid points. I’m not a comic book buff but I’ve seen the Heath Ledger Joker and way back in the day I saw Jack Nicholson’s in theatres (as I date myself) and both were as you described. I can understand your viewpoints for sure. Thank you for sharing!
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:11 AM   #53
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I had one minor gripe with an editing choice. I did not like how they had to hit the audience over the head with flashbacks of his delusions of hanging out with his neighbor.

It was pretty obvious that was all in his head to begin with and then it was confirmed by her confused and frightened reaction to him being in her apartment. They didn't have to go back and show her not being there when the one scene was enough. Treat audiences like they are smart. Don't cater to the dummies who need things spelled out for them.

Really enjoyed everything else about the movie. I think it will be considered a classic.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:34 AM   #54
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Just saw it, and liked it. One thing that bothered me. To me at least the Joker is very smart. Totally insane but still a very smart in his tactics. I didn’t get that vibe from this version. Batman would take him down in no time
I find it makes more sense to me if this guy is the catalyst for the “real” joker. If you take the movie at face value he started a movement. And potentially someone down the road who would be a worthier adversary would idolize him and do the whole schtick but be a little smarter and more able bodied.


That was the part I took from the whole movie. The man became a hero to an entire political movement while having totally different reasons then the political commentary in the movie perceived the actions as. I’d assume the joker who battles Batman later is someone who idolized the movement.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:28 AM   #55
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I find it makes more sense to me if this guy is the catalyst for the “real” joker. If you take the movie at face value he started a movement. And potentially someone down the road who would be a worthier adversary would idolize him and do the whole schtick but be a little smarter and more able bodied.


That was the part I took from the whole movie. The man became a hero to an entire political movement while having totally different reasons then the political commentary in the movie perceived the actions as. I’d assume the joker who battles Batman later is someone who idolized the movement.
That could make sense,

I really did like the movie. Was totally not what I was expecting but pretty good none the less.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:56 PM   #56
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I find it makes more sense to me if this guy is the catalyst for the “real” joker. If you take the movie at face value he started a movement. And potentially someone down the road who would be a worthier adversary would idolize him and do the whole schtick but be a little smarter and more able bodied.


That was the part I took from the whole movie. The man became a hero to an entire political movement while having totally different reasons then the political commentary in the movie perceived the actions as. I’d assume the joker who battles Batman later is someone who idolized the movement.
I believe you have to take it this way. This was not the genesis of a criminal mastermind. I couldn’t even really accept his sudden eloquence at the talk show.

Of course knowing that his parents were murdered because of the uprising fueled by the “joker” would have changed Bruce’s story too from what we know of it, and certainly changes how he would have reacted to the real Joker who ends up being his nemesis.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:19 PM   #57
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I believe you have to take it this way. This was not the genesis of a criminal mastermind. I couldn’t even really accept his sudden eloquence at the talk show.

Of course knowing that his parents were murdered because of the uprising fueled by the “joker” would have changed Bruce’s story too from what we know of it, and certainly changes how he would have reacted to the real Joker who ends up being his nemesis.
I found the killing of Bruce’s parents to be a nod towards the Original Keaton Batman. Coming out of theatre, huddled around kid, parents shot in alley and pearls flying everywhere. Took me back to 1989
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:57 PM   #58
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Saw it today, and as a cinematic experience it's quite brilliant. I think everyone in the theatre had a gut level reaction to what they witnessed. The movie had you glued to the screen throughout. I thought the character was incredibly complex and the movie wrestled with complex themes that are extremely relevant: wealth, inequality, wealth resentment, isolation, mental health, celebrity/social media. A lot of stuff that I'm still unraveling as I think about it a couple hours later. Phoenix was amazing, and I thought the direction was incredible. It was uncomfortable and unsettling to watch and was an impactful experience. Fantastic movie.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:50 PM   #59
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I found the killing of Bruce’s parents to be a nod towards the Original Keaton Batman. Coming out of theatre, huddled around kid, parents shot in alley and pearls flying everywhere. Took me back to 1989
That's not a nod to the '89 movie Batman, it's the original Batman origin story. You don't tell a Batman story without Martha's pearls.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:00 PM   #60
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That's not a nod to the '89 movie Batman, it's the original Batman origin story. You don't tell a Batman story without Martha's pearls.
Just what immediately came to mind when I saw it.
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