Brad Treliving “surprised” Mangiapane isn’t signed

[PepsiFree]

It does raise some questions over what, exactly, Mangiapane's camp is asking for.

I would think it'd be fairly easy to get such a minor contract done, as Mangiapane holds almost no leverage and still has a lot to prove. And for Treliving to admit he's surprised by the situation (he even said he shouldn't be surprised in this business) it definitely makes it sound like Mangiapane's camp is a bit out to lunch/unwilling to negotiate. Which is probably a negotiation tactic by Treliving so, who knows.

Either way, it didn't sound like either guy was particularly close. He put a ton of emphasis on how important it was to be there for camp, and said there's still a ton of heavy lifting to do for a lot of teams before camp starts. So, we'll see what happens I guess.

I wouldn't be surprised if both guys miss at least some of camp.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm agreeing with his camp that he's worth over 1 million. I'm guessing that the flames are offering less than that. Offering a 2 way would be less than that. Potentially a lot less.

That's nice

But you don't know what his camp wants.
But you don't know what the Flames are offering.

So you're agreeing with something you don't know to be true, and guessing on the other.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If Lazar is getting a million dollars from Buffalo Mangiapane's camp can certainly argue he's worth at least as much.

Lazar is getting league minimum from Buffalo: https://www.capfriendly.com/players/curtis-lazar

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by getbak

Lazar is getting league minimum from Buffalo: https://www.capfriendly.com/players/curtis-lazar

So I guess he was guessing on the Lazar contract too!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Toonage

^ More likely Dube & Quine

I'd say they're probably already replacing Hathaway and whoever goes to get under the cap. Which I guess is moot as long as Tkachuk and Mangiapane aren't signed.

[Flash Walken]

Rocco Grimaldi scored 5 goals in 53 games last year and just signed for a million bucks. He has 10 career goals.

Josh Ho-Sang just signed for 875 and he's a headache with 7 career goals.

Erikson-Ek has 2 seasons of 6 and 7 goals and just signed for 1.4x2

I'm just saying, the market comparables are there for Mangiapane. He's not off in the woods somewhere howling at the moon.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by getbak

Lazar is getting league minimum from Buffalo: https://www.capfriendly.com/players/curtis-lazar

Whoops.

But also, Curtis Lazar is much worse than Mangiapane.

[CN10]

Have to wonder what the holdup is if it is not waiting on the Tkachuk deal.

Mangiapane's camp doesn't have much leverage as he really only established himself in the last half of the season. It should be pretty simple deal in the 1 to 3 year range. If it's one year there's no way is needs to be above $1M. Maybe a 1 x $925k (rookie max) as he's still kind of a rookie barely making the GP cut off. Then next season he has arbitration rights and can use them if he feels the Flames undervalued him this off season, but he literally has a half season of good NHL play.

[Flash Walken]

I will laugh if Mangiapane gets an offersheet.

[Strange Brew]

It's not that ridiculous to speculate about what they may be disagreeing. Given Mangiapane's inexperience, we kind of know the range they are looking at.

Given Treliving's comment that Mangiapane's camp is passionate about what they want, it sounds like money vs. term to me. I imagine the $1 million cutoff is about right.

[CN10]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I will laugh if Mangiapane gets an offersheet.

It's not a horrible idea for a team like the Oilers with very few NHL caliber wingers.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CN10

It's not a horrible idea for a team like the Oilers with very few NHL caliber wingers.

I was thinking the Habs but the Oilers would be a good bet as well.

[Muta]

I'm assuming Mangiapane is holding out because he wants a guarantee that the Saddledome will sell different types of high-quality breads and bread dishes for the upcoming season. I fully support his efforts.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Rocco Grimaldi scored 5 goals in 53 games last year and just signed for a million bucks. He has 10 career goals.

Josh Ho-Sang just signed for 875 and he's a headache with 7 career goals.

Erikson-Ek has 2 seasons of 6 and 7 goals and just signed for 1.4x2

I'm just saying, the market comparables are there for Mangiapane. He's not off in the woods somewhere howling at the moon.

You are still assuming things.

Maybe the Flames are offering 2 years at $1.5M per season.

And maybe Mangiapane is asking for $3M per season.

Would you still think Mangiapane is right?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I will laugh if Mangiapane gets an offersheet.

I would expect as much.


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[tkflames]

Mangiapane has zero leverage. Maybe an agent waiting until the last minute to maximize value...but if he misses training camp...I doubt he starts in the nhl.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

He's not off in the woods somewhere howling at the moon.

I think the point is you don't know what he's howling.
So how can you take a side?
Reeks a little of finding any reason to criticize the management team instead of just admitting we have incomplete info.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You are still assuming things.

Maybe the Flames are offering 2 years at $1.5M per season.

And maybe Mangiapane is asking for $3M per season.

Would you still think Mangiapane is right?

I am assuming only one thing:

That the Flames are cap strapped and are looking to keep the AAV of a fringe player as low as possible.

[Split98]

When it comes to depth, tweeners or whatever category you put Mangiapane and his group in you can't really look at the rest of the league as much of a basis.

First off, what role they're filling has a lot to do with what they're offered.

But mostly, if you're going to a middling team that has cap flexibility... what salary you make over 1-2 years doesn't really affect the team that much. There's potential for you to contribute, earn more and help the team develop. Worst case, you can play 1-2 years and make some money they had leftover.

With cap-strapped teams, the difference between league minimum and $1-1.5 for 1-2 years means quite a bit more. If that cap-strapped team is good, you're also less likely to be needed in an important role, more likely to be replaced and those 1-2 years probably mean a lot more to that team than one that's building. The relatively small ask from Mangiapane's camp could have a ripple effect elsewhere during their 'window' - where on a team looking to build something there's much less impact of course.

So while Mangiapane's camp has some comparables (if speculation is on-point), he's comparing a few dollars off the pile from one team to a big chunk of the pennies leftover from another (or roster flexibility, if it's 2-way for example). I hope this stalemate is only planned on lasting until camp from his side, as holding out if a reasonable 1-2 year 2-way was on the table really asks way too much from someone who just showed up. I get asking for more and negotiating the best deal... but I really hope this is tidied up in the next few weeks.

[HighLifeMan]

Denis Malgin - 750k
Josh Ho sang - 875k
Michael Dal Colle - 700k
Adam Erne - 1M
AJ Greer - 735K

The Market has been set. Clearly Mangiapane is being unreasonable. He is not worth over 1M - unless he is seeking a deal with greater term than two years which would be strange to say the least.

Sign a 1 or 2 year deal and prove your worth.