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Old 04-27-2019, 05:35 PM   #61
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No one really commented on my proposal of eliminating the 'regulation rink' but most folks that I've discussed the idea with think it would be fun and could help restore a real home ice advantage.
Okay fine, I'll take it seriously and not just ignore it.

- No effect until the next gen of arenas/renos comes online.
- Some of the crappier owners would make insanely small rinks to get more seats.
- If you want to reward regular season performers you should give them an advantage in the playoff structure. Not in individual games, because that makes the games less interesting as a specific outcome is more likely.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:53 PM   #62
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I'm going to bring this thread back to life, because I think it deserves further discussion. As a fan of hockey and the NHL for pushing 40(!) years now, I cannot remember a time where I felt the league was this random.

Where we stand now is a culmination really of the post-lockout salary cap era. A process that has taken about a decade, and has simply just gone too far. Hockey has always been somewhat of a 'random' sport, in that in any given game, the team that played worse has a better chance of winning than I would say in any other major team sport (maybe save for soccer, but that is part of my distaste for that sport). The issue now though is that beyond a game-by-game randomness, we are now living in team-by-team and season-by-season randomness.

Two years ago an expansion team won their division and went to the Finals in their first year of existence! They may now be the 'best' team in the league, less than 3 years in. The team that won last year? As of 3 months into the season, they were LAST. There is almost nothing special about them. Wouldn't even be a shock if they missed the playoffs this year. This is just absurdity.

Who are the great teams? Tampa? They weren't a playoff team 2 years ago but last year were historic. And then the playoffs. Boston? Maybe, but they aren't far removed from being on the outside of the playoffs too (and I would argue Toronto outplayed them in round 1 last year). Colorado? The team the Flames WANTED in round 1 last year? Or how about Calgary, the team that went from no playoffs 2 years ago to #1 in the West? Maybe it's Carolina, or Buffalo, or Edmonton? Yikes.

I'll give you my take: there are no great teams anymore. Lots of good and mediocre teams, a couple not-so-good teams. Lots of games are pretty much a coin flip, and again the team that actually played better that night is far from guaranteed a win. Why is this?

A big combination of reasons. Salary cap/floor that has balanced the teams (I like this). Goalies still way too big for the nets they tend. Uniform rinks which have clobbered any home ice advantage. A super long regular season that doesn't fairly reward the highest performers. Any others I'm missing?

In any case, back to the original point, I love when there is uncertainty in sport, the prospect for upsets. That's a big reason we watch. But we also watch for strategy, team building and games that follow some sort of logic. It's why we care about the off season and UFAs and the draft and the like. It's severely lacking and doesn't feel like it matters in the NHL right now.

I'm pretty down about it. I thought both Flames games this weekend were stupid. They lost by a total of like 8 goals and that in absolutely no way reflects how the games were actually played. Curious to get the thoughts of the fixtures on this board, so many on here with a lot of hockey experience and obviously a love for the game.
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:55 PM   #63
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The officiating standard in the playoffs does change. And it should not be
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:00 PM   #64
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The officiating standard in the playoffs does change. And it should not be

I like it better in the playoffs. Less call and more fluid game play. But I agree that it should be the same all the time.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:15 PM   #65
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The officiating standard in the playoffs does change. And it should not be
It's almost not the same sport, which makes the inconsistency plain stupid.

Figure out what kind of league you want this to be already. Can't play to 'skill', 'speed', 'new era' than revert back to the traditional view of the game come spring.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:00 PM   #66
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I like it better in the playoffs. Less call and more fluid game play. But I agree that it should be the same all the time.
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It's almost not the same sport, which makes the inconsistency plain stupid.

Figure out what kind of league you want this to be already. Can't play to 'skill', 'speed', 'new era' than revert back to the traditional view of the game come spring.
It’s part of why Gaudreau has a tough time in the POs and suddenly Bennett becomes more effective (but not enough to win). Stuff in the offensive zone that put Bennett in the box is suddenly OK, and stuff that Johnny drew penalties on (though not enough) in the regular season is no longer called, and Johnny is hacked into ineffectiveness.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:14 AM   #67
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It’s part of why Gaudreau has a tough time in the POs and suddenly Bennett becomes more effective (but not enough to win). Stuff in the offensive zone that put Bennett in the box is suddenly OK, and stuff that Johnny drew penalties on (though not enough) in the regular season is no longer called, and Johnny is hacked into ineffectiveness.
Right... this is definitely part of what’s making the playoffs so random (and marginalizing the regular season). But even in terms of the regular season we are seeing too many worst-to-first and vice versa type fluctuations, and it’s almost impossible to tell what teams are actually playing good hockey! The 3 point game has also contributed to the lunacy.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:30 AM   #68
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I think parity is great. That is what the cap was supposed to bring, and that is exactly what it has brought.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:31 AM   #69
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However, I agree that having completely different officiating in the playoffs is a HUGE problem.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:38 PM   #70
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This is an inherent paradox in sports.

A, want sports to "be fair".
B, we want to find out which is the better team.

But if one is better, then it's not fair.
And if the game is perfectly fair, the result is just randomness and not interesting.

I would argue this paradox, or rather the tension between those mutually exclusive desires is a large part of the attraction of sports. It's why pretty much all the most popular sports stories are underdog stories. The more uneven the game looks, the greater the tension between those two desires, until the underdog literally can not win and the tension breaks.

In other words, too much parity and too little parity both make the game lose tension.

In general, parity isn't that great for interest in sports. In an optimal situation the worst teams can just barely compete on the same level with the best teams. This is how the most popular leagues tend to function. It's why a relegation system and a tiered league system is so good in the long term; it naturally creates a situation with established greats and a obvious underdogs who once in a blue moon prove that the game is ultimately fair by winning the whole thing.

The NHL regular season is a somewhat unique example of the opposite, because it's a really long tournament with extreme parity that doesn't even have a meaningful price at the end. The draft ensures that in the long term even the top players are randomly distributed. It's so fair it's become quite boring.

At least the playoffs have a clear winner in the end.

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Old 10-15-2019, 12:43 PM   #71
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...so yeah, I would totally support making AHL the lower tier league of NHL, and then watch the Oilers get relegated
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:35 PM   #72
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Yes, I have definitely come around to the Euro football model - that way you at least have 2 sets of meaningful races. Sadly, can never happen here. But, I agree, the season has become unwatchable. Maybe some combination of a 40 game regular season and an elaborate double-knock out playoff season would be more entertaining...
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:33 PM   #73
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76 gp reg season makes all the sense in the world once at 32 teams (7x4 + 24x2). The current unbalanced schedule is silly.

5v4 play-in games for each division. No crossovers. Doubleheaders Monday and Tuesday before playoffs start on Wednesday. Last ~4 games of the season are all in division, keeping races alive right until the end. There are a lot of other things I would do schedule-wise that would reduce travel and improve schedule 'fairness'.

I'm sure there are better ways to fix the randomness factor on-ice, but this would keep hope alive longer for more teams, which is exactly what the league wants...it maybe makes the stupid randomness a little easier to take.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:47 PM   #74
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76 gp reg season makes all the sense in the world once at 32 teams (7x4 + 24x2). The current unbalanced schedule is silly.

5v4 play-in games for each division. No crossovers. Doubleheaders Monday and Tuesday before playoffs start on Wednesday. Last ~4 games of the season are all in division, keeping races alive right until the end. There are a lot of other things I would do schedule-wise that would reduce travel and improve schedule 'fairness'.

I'm sure there are better ways to fix the randomness factor on-ice, but this would keep hope alive longer for more teams, which is exactly what the league wants...it maybe makes the stupid randomness a little easier to take.
No business in the world is going to voluntarily drop their revenues by 7%.

A more likely solution would be to go:

16 x 2, 8 x 3, 7 x 4 = 84 games, or
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:54 PM   #75
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The biggest factors in being successful are drafting and development.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:29 PM   #76
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I've said it in other threads, but I do miss when bad teams were bad. There was something special about the Blackhawks finally entering the realm of 'good team' and Cinderella stories actually felt like a team overcoming adversity. I don't know how you ever get back to it, and it's likely 'grass is greener' but never-the-less I don't think I like this 'anyone can win!' 2019 playoffs better than the playoffs I remember.

However, if the teams are going to be entering the arena this even by design - and we're comparing the wills of the gathered pawns in a best-of-7... the game has to function properly.

They use 2019 technology to build parity in communication and research... so the game isn't exactly 'classic' and untouched anymore. Which is the only reason I can assume for the NHL to roll out the ineffective and heavily criticized "2 humans standing in the middle of the action" that was appropriate in 1920. This game needs to be officiated well, and we've seen success in other sports. It's possible, you just need people doing good jobs and to actually invest in your on-ice product. I'm floored by how inconsistent reffing, reviews, and suspensions are and yet I see a large consensus from fans on the right call quite often - and these are biased, likely intoxicated un-trained refs demonstrating that it's not that damn hard. Whether by influence or gross incompetence, the decision maker frequently chooses the wrong option. Is it the rulebook? Is it poor management? Are they that dumb? There is no way this can't be improved, and the NHL asks fans to pay good money for a garbage product. If it wasn't for their freelancers putting on a good show, the NHL would deservedly be out of business.

I would love to know what people in the situation room and refs on the ice really think about the job they're doing. Do they know the right call and there's something that they always have to bend to?

The classic hockey with human error was a different hockey than today in every facet but how calls are made. GMs used to make trades with feet-on-the-ground research and without hundreds of scouts, the internet and video of every 15-30 year old player they could imagine. This parity is only possible with technology, so it's time to refresh this rag-tag group of losers to something more befitting of what they ask us to pay for.
ThAts a great take, One of the most well reasoned and explained positions I have heard yet. Kudos

I think the officiating is in dire need of a re-evaluation. I have been a notorious critic of these officials for years. I appreciate the parity. Yet, I don’t appreciate inconsistent officiating. In any sport.

Look at the nfl though and the lions and packers game last Monday. Human error will always be a factor until leagues demand more certainty and accuracy of how their product enforces its own rules. It’s an evolving process I see, yet why not innovate? At least the NFL has altered its rules with the coaches challenge on pass interference. Perhaps that’s what could stand improving immediately before throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Allow coaches in the nhl to challenge would be penalties or go with a popular opinion of putting more officials at birds eye view a chance to support their on ice cohorts ? I appreciate the off side challenge and the goalie interference but there needs to be more. Even then look how inconsistent the goalie interference challenge is arbitrated. It’s still seemingly ineffective. This leads me to believe an over haul of how the game is regulated and adjudicated is paramount. Additional officials on a closed loop communication network between off ice and on ice officials could do wonders.

And the yyc colo series was called in light of the shift from regular season to let them play playoff style wasnt affforded to Calgary. Game three in Colorado was a farce. Regular season calls for Colorados benefit but playoff calls for our team which benefitted Colorado in that our chances werent awarded until too much momentum had been gained by the avs. /rant
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:55 PM   #77
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The parity in the league is a direct result of having a salary cap system. The salary cap was introduced so smaller market teams can thrive. Without a salary cap, you end up with the big market teams with rich owners like Toronto, Detroit and New York build dynasties. And let's not forget Calgary is a small market team. We just don't generate enough revenue for the owners to dish out hundreds of millions of dollars to the superstars if there is no salary cap. Add to the fact that Calgary is not as attractive of a destination as some of the US metropolitans...

Several posters brought up the possibility of a two tiered system like in football. In the English Premier League, the big spenders like Man City, Man U, Chelsea, etc. have payrolls 10 times as much as some of the lower teams. And the EPL is one of the leagues with the most parity in European football. Two players on Bayern Munich make more than 5 of the lower ranked teams entire payroll. It's no wonder Bayern destroys the German domestic league every year.

If the NHL uses a system like that, I think the Flames are one of the teams that flounder in mediocrity for a long time. Not relegation bad, but not Man U good either. We would be like West Ham or something.

Also, imagine Toronto throwing a 200M offer sheet at Tkachuk in a world without a salary cap. No way can we even match that.

I know a lot of posters are posted off at the Oilers hot start, but honestly I think the league is better because of parity and more importantly, the Flames are better because of parity.
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Old 10-17-2019, 04:27 AM   #78
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There will always be cinderella teams that go on and win the cup and there will always be a group of contenders that are slowly replaced over a "cycle".

During the early 90's it was the Penguins, Chicago, LA, Boston. Then Avalanche, Devils, Detroit, Dallas and Philly gradually took over while the latter started to regress.

Detroit was good for a long time, but Pittsburg battled back, so did Chicago and the contender group was slowly replaced in to Chicage, Anaheim, SJ etc.

If you look at it in five year spans there is a pretty consistent group of teams that are competitive. Nashville, Penguins, San Jose have been very consistent for example.

I fully agree that there is more parity, but I disagree that it's completely random. I mean, nobody expected Carolina or Tampa Bay to win it in the past. Good teams win, and good teams find a way to handle the cap.

Edit:

Yes, there is one completely random parameter - the referees. As I watch the Swedish Elit League as well I can say that holy mother of God, the NHL has a refereeing problem. Best players in the world, but the officials are bush league. Just compare season vs play offs. Or worse, in game management - it's like they want to make a difference.
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:41 AM   #79
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No business in the world is going to voluntarily drop their revenues by 7%.

A more likely solution would be to go:

16 x 2, 8 x 3, 7 x 4 = 84 games, or
The suspense is killing me!!
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:20 AM   #80
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If the NHL uses a system like that, I think the Flames are one of the teams that flounder in mediocrity for a long time. Not relegation bad, but not Man U good either. We would be like West Ham or something.
So what you're saying is, it wouldn't really change anything for the Flames.
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