Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[AC]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Bennett, Tkachuk and Lucic lead the team with 16 hits. And that matches what I have been watching.

No question that Bennett has taken some bad penalties. But one thing we can definitely say in a positive vain, is that he has been throwing the body.

He's making contact with people, but I'm talking about making big hits. Have there been any?

He gets into the games when he crushes someone.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by AC

He's making contact with people, but I'm talking about making big hits. Have there been any?

He gets into the games when he crushes someone.

He needs better linemates to crush.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by AC

He's making contact with people, but I'm talking about making big hits. Have there been any?

He gets into the games when he crushes someone.

I can think of a few, but we're really starting to split hairs now.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Patience. Bennett is a slow starter, like Iggy

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Patience. Bennett is a slow starter, like Iggy

4+ years?

Yeah that IS slow.

[pepper24]

Bennett should have been traded a few seasons ago. His value continues to decline so not sure if he's worthwhile trading now and maybe we just need to accept he's a bottom 6 player that can play physical. No more experiments on the top 6 as Kent Wilson's stats show he's far from a top 6 forward.

Maybe there are a few teams that would take a chance on him being a former high pick so maybe options there.

[Igottago]

I was really thinking this would be a year he'd take a step forward but just not seeing it yet. Still, think you need to give him 20 or so games to see where his game is -- but it's not looking like there will be an evolution with him. I think its very likely he just is what he is at this point.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Bennett should have been traded a few seasons ago. His value continues to decline so not sure if he's worthwhile trading now and maybe we just need to accept he's a bottom 6 player that can play physical. No more experiments on the top 6 as Kent Wilson's stats show he's far from a top 6 forward.

Maybe there are a few teams that would take a chance on him being a former high pick so maybe options there.

I'm not advocating he's a top six forward, but all Kent Wilson's stats show is that he's had a rough start in six games.

One of the stats he used xGF% is now at 46.05, and only 8 players on the team are over 50%.

Johnny Gaudreau is at 46.8%, Sean Monahan at 47.5%

The team isn't playing all that well, Sam Bennett isn't alone. He was ranked 10th on the team last year with 53.1%.

[RichKlit]

At this point he is what he is, no more no less.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Bennett should have been traded a few seasons ago. His value continues to decline so not sure if he's worthwhile trading now and maybe we just need to accept he's a bottom 6 player that can play physical. No more experiments on the top 6 as Kent Wilson's stats show he's far from a top 6 forward.

Maybe there are a few teams that would take a chance on him being a former high pick so maybe options there.

Value was never really high enough to warrant trading him off two years ago. Probably would have got another struggling prospect or 2nd or something.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Value was never really high enough to warrant trading him off two years ago. Probably would have got another struggling prospect or 2nd or something.

Rumour back then was Galchenyuk for Bennett. Galchenyuk eventually got Domi from Coyotes so maybe there was a Flames/Coyotes trade to be made. Domi would be a huge upgrade on Bennett, probably same with Galchenyuk.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

At this point he is what he is, no more no less.

Technically he’s always been exactly what he is.

[GioforPM]

Bennett obviously has to stay through November. Just for the stache.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Rumour back then was Galchenyuk for Bennett. Galchenyuk eventually got Domi from Coyotes so maybe there was a Flames/Coyotes trade to be made. Domi would be a huge upgrade on Bennett, probably same with Galchenyuk.

Yeah, if that was the case then too bad

[genetic_phreek]

In my opinion his development with the team had a factor to what he is today.

I've been irritated by Oiler fans and pissed off about hearing that Draisatl being the greatest draft from that year. The argument is made by a lot of us on CP is that he's been riding shotgun with McDavid and statistics somewhat prove that.

I wonder if we kept allowing Bennett to play wing with Johnny and Mony, if his development would be different and production as well.

Looking at his last four years courtesty of https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com I noticed he was shifted around quite a bit and never spent more than 25% of the season with the same linemates.

2018-2019: 25% Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
2017-2018: 22% Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett and 18% Bennett - Jankowski - Neal
2016-2017: 18% Versteeg - Bennett - Brouwer
2015-2016: 24% Bennett - Backlund - Frolik

As an example for comparison, Ferland's career year he played with Johnny and Mony for over 50% of the season.

Another player comparison from the same draft year is Willie Nylander. He had a down year last season due to his holdout but when he did play, he didn't produce. He had the same linemates for only 22% of the season.
His previous two years he played with the same linemates for 51% and 42% of the season and produced 60+ points respectively.

This data could be coincidence and maybe it's believable to me because of wishful thinking but I feel if Bennett was provided with a consistent opportunity, it may resulted in a better producing version of what he is today.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

In my opinion his development with the team had a factor to what he is today.

I've been irritated by Oiler fans and pissed off about hearing that Draisatl being the greatest draft from that year. The argument is made by a lot of us on CP is that he's been riding shotgun with McDavid and statistics somewhat prove that.

I wonder if we kept allowing Bennett to play wing with Johnny and Mony, if his development would be different and production as well.

Looking at his last four years courtesty of https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com I noticed he was shifted around quite a bit and never spent more than 25% of the season with the same linemates.

2018-2019: 25% Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
2017-2018: 22% Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett and 18% Bennett - Jankowski - Neal
2016-2017: 18% Versteeg - Bennett - Brouwer
2015-2016: 24% Bennett - Backlund - Frolik

As an example for comparison, Ferland's career year he played with Johnny and Mony for over 50% of the season.

Another player comparison from the same draft year is Willie Nylander. He had a down year last season due to his holdout but when he did play, he didn't produce. He had the same linemates for only 22% of the season.
His previous two years he played with the same linemates for 51% and 42% of the season and produced 60+ points respectively.

This data could be coincidence and maybe it's believable to me because of wishful thinking but I feel if Bennett was provided with a consistent opportunity, it may resulted in a better producing version of what he is today.

This argument has been consistently coming back up for the last 4 years.

The unfortunate reality is that any time Bennett is given an extended leash, or a better opportunity, he gets into his own head: takes bad penalties, tries to create too much on his own instead of using his linemates, toe drags left right and centre, and turns the puck over frequently.
It's like he's a bit spotlight shy or something.

Anyways, I think it will serve us best to staple bennett to consistency on a third line and just leave him there all season. No more elevating him, let him produce in a limited role with consistency all season long.

This is also part of the reason I want to see another centre/rw brought in to create a new "second line". If you can either bump lindy down to play with tkachuk or get someone more offensive minded in at centre to play with tkachuk, then you can give bennett some real consistency playing alongside Backlund and Frolik for a full season.

[Harry Lime]

Bennett might be the most mishandled prospect and player in recent Flames history. His role isn't even defined shift to shift.

[Monahammer]

I disagree with this sentiment entirely. Bennett has been given plenty of opportunity to develop properly. This is a fault on the player not the org. Sorry to say that Sam is just not going to reach the potential we were pitched on, and we should be ecstatic if he can round into a consistent 40 point producer.

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Bennett might be the most mishandled prospect and player in recent Flames history. His role isn't even defined shift to shift.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I disagree with this sentiment entirely. Bennett has been given plenty of opportunity to develop properly. This is a fault on the player not the org. Sorry to say that Sam is just not going to reach the potential we were pitched on, and we should be ecstatic if he can round into a consistent 40 point producer.

You can disagree and at the same time people have posted facts that support their case, in the form of % time with various line mates.

What are you basing “plenty of opportunity” on? Your feelings?

Bennett was perfectly fine as a rookie when deployed consistently with Backlund and Frolik. Comparable in production to what Tkachuk did in his first year.

When Gulutzan put Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik the next year, he committed to that, and Bennett then bounced around the bottom 6 blender.

I saw the guy being the best skater for the team in the playoffs, and I don’t think the 6 minutes Bennett got in a top 6 role in one game is a good example of an opportunity.

I’d love to see the guy with fixed, consistent quality line mates for several games.

It’s a frankly wrong argument to say that a guy who hasn’t been given consistent line mates has been put in the best position to succeed.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You can disagree and at the same time people have posted facts that support their case, in the form of % time with various line mates.

What are you basing “plenty of opportunity” on? Your feelings?

Bennett was perfectly fine as a rookie when deployed consistently with Backlund and Frolik. Comparable in production to what Tkachuk did in his first year.

When Gulutzan put Tkachuk with Backlund and Frolik the next year, he committed to that, and Bennett then bounced around the bottom 6 blender.

I saw the guy being the best skater for the team in the playoffs, and I don’t think the 6 minutes Bennett got in a top 6 role in one game is a good example of an opportunity.

I’d love to see the guy with fixed, consistent quality line mates for several games.

It’s a frankly wrong argument to say that a guy who hasn’t been given consistent line mates has been put in the best position to succeed.

It gets worse when you look at what other teams do with their top picks. Sam Reinhart struggled just like Bennett has, but Buffalo then stapled him to players better than him - and I think in no small part thanks that decision, Reinhart started hitting his stride and started producing more.

It's not Sam Bennett's fault that Treliving has royally screwed the pooch on building the bottom 6. Nor was it Sam Bennett's fault that Treliving signed Glen Gulutzan as the head coach. I'd argue, prior to Derek Ryan last year - Sam Bennett has been our best player in the bottom 6 since he arrived in that spot. That's not how you successfully develop young players - and it's not like we have a long history of amazing success developing players at the AHL or NHL level, so the blind faith in blaming the player and praising the team seems misguided to me.

I'm not saying Bennett would have been the 90 point player that we all envisioned on day 1, but the mixture of Glen Gulutzan being an absolutely horrific NHL head coach, and Treliving's inability to build a bottom 6 has hurt Sam's development significantly. He is what he is today - which is a 3rd line player who could still one day work his way up a roster, but it's best to just accept him as that 3rd line player who shows up for big games - and that's not a bad thing. Stop looking for faults in his game, because perfect players don't exist on 3rd lines. He has his ups and downs, but there are plenty of positives - just maybe not as many as we would have liked to start this season, but that same view exists across the entire roster, or at least it should - as it has not been a stellar start to the year.