Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[rohara66]

- King said he wasn't answering questions regarding the arena.
- Most of the questions on the cards were about the arena.
- Francis asked a couple arena questions to which King said 'no comment' or 'next question'.
- Francis chunked said arena question card(s) over his shoulder and then read the next card/question.
- Someone asked if the Flames leave will we all become Oilers fans, King called Francis a 'moron' for even asking that question.
- The end.

Some of the posters in this thread are frickin crazy haha. Did you even watch the damn video?

[Hockeyguy15]

If King called Francis an idiot he just gained back some of my respect.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by New Era

Protective? How about just a sense of decorum? Calling the man a liar about his meeting with a dying woman? Claiming they were not reading questions that would make the team look bad? Claiming Ken King eats babies and ####s chemical weapons? Did I miss something that seems like reasonable comments directed at Ken King or this event? I would be doing the exact same thing for Nenshi if the shoe was on the other foot. Focus on the issues and not make this personal. It was once a big badge of honor around here to shake Ken King's hand. But that was before everyone became experts in the economics of the game, the finances of the city, and the negotiations going on behind closed doors. I'll give all parties involved a pass with a lot of what is said in the media, because it is all posturing. Everyone should do the same.

The guy brings up the same story over and over like he wants some Kudos for it. So who gives a rats ass.

Decorum? For who? the man who wants to rob this city? Screw that noise.

Why is it a badge of honor to shake KK's hand? Is he like a person who lead to positive change in society or something? or a business man?

I hope the Flames move to Seattle and have a hard time selling even one ticket.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

Why don't they have a single share sale ala the green bay packers. X number of shares for for a couple hundred where all the money raised goes to the arena cost. I'd buy one

I suggested this several pages back. That would of course require the team to be sold and agreement from the BoG. Would they? Would be an interesting exercise for sure. In the Green Bay model there are about 5,000,000 shares, with the last public offering being 269,000 shares starting at $250. I figure it would take about $1B to buy out ownership and then build a new arena from cash. So with a $250 per share IPO price, that would mean about 4,000,000 shares.

So how many shares can I put you down for?

Originally Posted by Parallex

If the Flames want to try and cry poverty they can go ahead and do that... show the public your audited books before asking for a public bailout (and maybe don't have the guy responsible for producing that outcome, AKA the President of the Company, be the one asking for it).

I do believe the Flames opened up the books to the City for the purposes of this process.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

If King called Francis an idiot he just gained back some of my respect.

Sorry, he called him a moron.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Sorry, he called him a moron.

Potato, potato.

[Strange Brew]

The revenue sharing comment is interesting but if you share one financial tidbit in isolation, you can't help but think it is being used for manipulative purposes

Would love to see the city and Flames present contrasting models similar to what Bingo prepared and see if there really is a middle ground or not.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by rohara66

- King said he wasn't answering questions regarding the arena.
- Most of the questions on the cards were about the arena.
- Francis asked a couple arena questions to which King said 'no comment' or 'next question'.
- Francis chunked said arena question card(s) over his shoulder and then read the next card/question.
- Someone asked if the Flames leave will we all become Oilers fans, King called Francis a 'moron' for even asking that question.
- The end.

Some of the posters in this thread are frickin crazy haha. Did you even watch the damn video?

Nope must have been a shill job, there's even a video haven't you heard!

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by New Era

Calling the man a liar about his meeting with a dying woman?

Who called him a liar about that? I see people (rightly) calling him out on milking the death of a woman for propaganda purposes.

Originally Posted by New Era

Claiming they were not reading questions that would make the team look bad?

Did they read questions that would make the team look bad? C'mon man, Eric Francis is such a shill for Flames ownership it wouldn't shock anyone if he was on the payroll.

Originally Posted by New Era

It was once a big badge of honor around here to shake Ken King's hand.

Really? Why? He's just a corporate executive... even if it once was, guess what? Times change.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Potato, potato.

Need to be 100% correct or else I'll end up getting flamed (pun intended) just like Ken King.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by New Era

I do believe the Flames opened up the books to the City for the purposes of this process.

But not to the public.

Really if the City (as represented by council) unanimously rejecting the deal the Flames wanted probably says something about any cries of poverty the Flames may make.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

The guy brings up the same story over and over like he wants some Kudos for it. So who gives a rats ass.

Because it exemplifies the uniqueness of sports to bring us together regardless of our circumstances. The fact that someone who is about to die thinks the greatest thing is to get an autographed Mark Giordano photo, well that speaks a lot about how much the team, the sport, and the players really mean to us. They give us an escape from the things that really mean something and can do us harm on a daily basis. Regardless of our political affiliation, our race, our sex, or sexual preference, or any other thing that divides us, for 3-4 hours on game day we are all members of the same tribe and hope for the same things. That reparative power is something special. That's why he celebrates it and why he tells that story.

Decorum? For who? the man who wants to rob this city? Screw that noise.

It's called a conversation. And he is not trying to rob anyone. His enterprise brings a great deal of value to the local economy, through good and bad. He's just looking out for his interests just like Nenshi is.

Why is it a badge of honor to shake KK's hand? Is he like a person who lead to positive change in society or something? or a business man?

Because King, at one time, was a symbol of the positive change that happened in the club. The game experience changed and the team wanted to be more competitive. That was a massive improvement over Rod Bremner. A lot of people, some in this thread, saw value in that and went out of their way to shake his hand and then tell the story about it on this board. Oh, I'm sorry, milk the story about it here on this board. Amirite?

I hope the Flames move to Seattle and have a hard time selling even one ticket.

Why are you even on this board if you hate the team so much? And yes, the owners and management are a big part of the team. If the team is sold and moves to Seattle I doubt they have any trouble selling tickets. If they do, it will be another owner and their problem to deal with. The current owners will have made bank off of their investment, and you'll have nothing to do all winter. Yeah, you'll show them!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Parallex

But not to the public.

The City is the public.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's why he celebrates it and why he tells that story.

Balderdash... he's almost exclusively told that story as an example of "public benefit" provided by the Flames so that he can try to weasel free money out of the city. He's basically using that story to say "we'll pay you with feelings... but not money, that's fair!".

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by New Era

The City is the public.

Provide a link to the Flames audited financials please. If not then they weren't provided to the public... the publics representatives under an NDA maybe... but not the public.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Sorry, he called him a moron.

Isn't it even better? I mean, I was once told that moron is one step lower than idiot?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Maybe it's more pertinent to understand exactly how much revenue sharing they qualified for? I think your analysis has already determined that the franchise on a whole is a losing venture since they're not in the list of: Toronto, New York, Chicago and Boston.

I wouldn't call it a losing venture, but more a relatively poor return on investment.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by New Era

Because it exemplifies the uniqueness of sports to bring us together regardless of our circumstances.

The volunteer efforts after the flood accomplished that far better, far more meaningfully, and at a far more genuine grassroots level than any sporting event ever will. Does that mean I should be free to exploit the fact I chipped in with the effort and helped people whose lives were ruined to guilt people into giving me free stuff?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Did they read questions that would make the team look bad? C'mon man, Eric Francis is such a shill for Flames ownership it wouldn't shock anyone if he was on the payroll.

Dude, be careful. There's a post from a few pages back saying Francis just threatened a random fan with a lawsuit for suggesting this on twitter.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Why would it be dangerous? Who, that King couldn't credibly claim wasn't misinformed, would be able to refute that? and why would they?

If he were proved to be fibbing what are the consequences? Does he go to jail? No, Does he get fired? Why would they fire him if they're making money (important thing to remember... even if he's telling the whole truth all that would mean was that it was the first time in years they weren't top 10 in revenue, cry me a river... considering how often they drafted top 10 in those x # of years)? cost to his credibility? That all his other half truths and fabrications didn't already drain?

If the Flames want to try and cry poverty they can go ahead and do that... show the public your audited books before asking for a public bailout (and maybe don't have the guy responsible for producing that outcome, AKA the President of the Company, be the one asking for it). Seriously, if Ken King is claiming poverty on behalf of the Flames AFAIK he's saying "look at what a bad job I'm doing".

Another NHL owner could refute it.

The annual Forbes report is out soon, which would certainly point to a fib if they have the Flames in the top 7-8 in operating income and revenue.

I'm with you guys on CSEC having a fairly brutal week, I think King's press conference was a complete mess a few days ago, but I think if he's referring to something as specific as NHL revenue sharing you can take him at face value.

This debate has enough drama without adding another witch hunt.