Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[getbak]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

What sort of concessions?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympi...913-story.html

In return for going second, L.A. will not have to pay tens of millions in IOC fees and will get a $180-million advance, most of which will go to funding youth programs citywide beginning as soon as next year.

LA 2028 will also receive a larger slice of IOC revenues and will not have to give the IOC a standard 20% of its surplus if the Games run under budget.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I don't see this happening. Edwards has closed the file on the arena.

Just my opinion but it will require the City to make a meaningful move to get this back on track.

I hope the City doesn't offer them a single dime over their revealed deal.

[getbak]

Jen Gerson: Nenshi's re-election is a win for every city blackmailed by a sports team

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/jen-...-a-sports-team

While NHL owners often strong-arm local politicians for baubles, interference during an election campaign was uncommonly audacious. At the very least, Nenshi’s win seems like suitable comeuppance for Bettman. There are limits in this country to even hockey’s power.

Leaving aside the particulars of the Nenshi-Smith showdown, what terrible signal would a Smith victory have sent to politicians in other hockey cities? Play nice, pony up or pack out?

For this reason alone, there is some broader social utility to Nenshi’s success. (Though I was so looking forward to debuting the term “Hockey ####” to describe the ostensibly Conservative politicians whose parsimony with the public purse gives way when the puck hits the ice. Alas.)

“Lots of teams these days make money through corporate suites and luxury boxes,” Lander said. “The stadium functions, and the Flames might be losing out on millions each year, and both of those things are true.”

But the idea that taxpayer funds should prop up a new building so billionaire owners can make extra bank on luxury boxes just doesn’t bring a tear to my eye.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Awesome interview on the fan right now, political scientist skewering the csec

I was shocked that the FAN didn’t pre-vet that better. That interview was a 1..2..3 knock down of the Flames from a calm, educated, and well spoken poli sci expert. It was a teardown.

My favorite part was when she was talking about the Kelso tweets and was like “who thinks any of this would help, the Flames just...” then an emergency alert came on. I thought for a sec somone in FAN management just reached for the emergency red button.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I was shocked that the FAN didn’t pre-vet that better. That interview was a 1..2..3 knock down of the Flames from a calm, educated, and well spoken poli sci expert. It was a teardown.

My favorite part was when she was talking about the Kelso tweets and was like “who thinks any of this would help, the Flames just...” then an emergency alert came on. I thought for a sec somone in FAN management just reached for the emergency red button.

Did they bother to upload the audio for that one or are they gonna bury it?

edit: nm I've found it

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...-5-october-17/

at the 23 minute mark

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I hope the City doesn't offer them a single dime over their revealed deal.

I am of a different mindset but you are certainly not alone in that regard.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by nik-

Did they bother to upload the audio for that one or are they gonna bury it?

edit: nm I've found it

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...-5-october-17/

at the 23 minute mark

Kerr did a good job, certainly didn't carry CSEC's water on this.

[troutman]

n/m

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

But a 4-3 win is a win, regardless of whether it's in Regulation, Overtime or a Shootout...hmmm? Same 2 points. A losing goaltender is still a losing goaltender, regardless of whether it's in Regulation, Overtime or a Shootout....right? Same loss.

ROW is a tiebreaker for standings so...no?

I'm much less confident about calling the owners' bluff now that Alexander has sold off the Rockets and the new owners are interested in having the NHL in their building. When it was just Seattle gearing up for an expansion slot sure but there are multiple paths of movement now.

[stone hands]

honestly if anyone thinks the calgary flames are moving to houston before any of the half-dozen nhl teams barely treading water or drowning, i dont know what to tell you

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by stone hands

honestly if anyone thinks the calgary flames are moving to houston before any of the half-dozen nhl teams barely treading water or drowning, i dont know what to tell you

How many decades now has the same mantra been repeated? It's resulted in precisely 1 (one) team moving out of the sunbelt which A) was the result of it's owners actively doing everything in it's power to cut them loose and B) has now been offset by expanding to Vegas. If an owner wants a team in a market and is willing to pay the money necessary to get it done, everything else is irrelevant.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

How many decades now has the same mantra been repeated? It's resulted in precisely 1 (one) team moving out of the sunbelt which A) was the result of it's owners actively doing everything in it's power to cut them loose and B) has now been offset by expanding to Vegas. If an owner wants a team in a market and is willing to pay the money necessary to get it done, everything else is irrelevant.

They're also the only other team to move period in the last 20 years besides the whalers. The league has definitely shown an interest to keep teams in the sunbelt, to the tune of taking the team over and running a deficit in the realm of tens of millions of dollars to keep arizona around. do you really think they would move a team that actually makes money? What sense does that make?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

How many decades now has the same mantra been repeated? It's resulted in precisely 1 (one) team moving out of the sunbelt which A) was the result of it's owners actively doing everything in it's power to cut them loose and B) has now been offset by expanding to Vegas. If an owner wants a team in a market and is willing to pay the money necessary to get it done, everything else is irrelevant.

Not in a revenue shared league.

[gunnner]

Glad Neshi won, but now i hope this topic goes away now till next summer. An annoying distraction to the best team on paper the flames have had in 26 years.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by stone hands

They're also the only other team to move period in the last 20 years besides the whalers. The league has definitely shown an interest to keep teams in the sunbelt, to the tune of taking the team over and running a deficit in the realm of tens of millions of dollars to keep arizona around. do you really think they would move a team that actually makes money? What sense does that make?

Quebec was moved almost literally overnight the moment it stopped making money, the fact it was in the black the entire time leading up to that moment meant nothing. The rhetoric that Calgary's ownership has been using sounds very familiar and leads me to believe they're contemplating a similar type of exit plan.

[Demzy84]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

How many decades now has the same mantra been repeated? It's resulted in precisely 1 (one) team moving out of the sunbelt which A) was the result of it's owners actively doing everything in it's power to cut them loose and B) has now been offset by expanding to Vegas. If an owner wants a team in a market and is willing to pay the money necessary to get it done, everything else is irrelevant.

I agree. If someone paid $500M for an expansion team, whose not to say Fertitta (Texas born, has had a hand in all teams in Texas at some point) would offer to buy the Flames for ~$600M? Calgary ownership might see this (Make close to $200M based on team value in 2016) as a way to wash their hands of the team seeing as they aren't getting their new arena.

Then you have the Seattle SuperSonics drama all over again in Calgary. Houston owner wants new arena, him and city can't make it work, then he moves team to Houston and his home state (which is even easier since he owns the arena the team will play in)

Seattle I wasn't too concerned with, but with Fertitta's interest in getting an NHL team, the Flames playing in the oldest arena in the NHL and missing out on new revenue streams, could be a recipe for relocation in 5 years.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Not in a revenue shared league.

Okay? That hasn't stopped 20 years of endless prophesizing that the sunbelt teams are going to experience a mass catastrophic implosion any day now, even with half that period being under the umbrella of revenue sharing. If the desire of those sunbelt owners to keep their teams put is greater than Calgary's ownership's desire to keep their financial stake in the Flames why is it relevant? Especially if a potential American ownership group outbids a potential local one? There's no reason for them (or the NHL) to stay loyal if they can get a bigger cashout elsewhere.

They're already laying down the rhetoric that they're no longer on the side of revenue sharing they signed up to be on. They're certainly exaggerating the extent of it as it currently stands but you know what they say about frogs and boiling water.

[Scornfire]

The dome would have to be literally condemned before the BoG allows the Flames to relocate

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Demzy84

I agree. If someone paid $500M for an expansion team, whose not to say Fertitta (Texas born, has had a hand in all teams in Texas at some point) would offer to buy the Flames for ~$600M? Calgary ownership might see this (Make close to $200M based on team value in 2016) as a way to wash their hands of the team seeing as they aren't getting their new arena.

Then you have the Seattle SuperSonics drama all over again in Calgary. Houston owner wants new arena, him and city can't make it work, then he moves team to Houston and his home state (which is even easier since he owns the arena the team will play in)

Seattle I wasn't too concerned with, but with Fertitta's interest in getting an NHL team, the Flames playing in the oldest arena in the NHL and missing out on new revenue streams, could be a recipe for relocation in 5 years.

Isn't it cheaper to buy and move about 5 other teams before Calgary?

[djsFlames]

I think Nenshi can and should take a step towards the Flames in their proposal, if only to show good faith and kickstart real talks, as he is the mayor and we do need that arena either for the Flames or an Olympic bid.

If the Flames continue to pout after that though then forget about it, that's on them and they can deal with the consequences. At least then we can say Nenshi and co gave it a real shot and it can't really be hung on the city.