Brad Treliving needs to go

[dino7c]

Gaudreau was 4th in Hart voting the last full NHL season

is he top 100 now? Its a dramatic drop off, pretty hard to call someone falling that far and he isn't the only one.

Again Brad ultimately is responsible but its gotta be a kick in the nuts, sports are brutal

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For one season.
And then it run out of steam and the players didn't want Hartley anymore.

Cultures sustain.

The reality is that we don't know what the culture was so to put it out there as something BT benefited from inheriting is just a vague and assumptive argument based on very little.

Well, it’s a bit more complicated than that.

If you want to talk about reality, we have reviewed the final season with Hartley in detail and there was a lot that went on. 3 goalies, Hamilton’s first 20, Wideman, stabilized play until Ramo’s knee blowout (.919 from December through then) , etc.

And if Johnny and Monny as RFAs are, as you seem to imply, such hot #### they have the GM by the balls, he doesn’t deserve his job.

You are among many who love to default to ‘there are so many things going on that we just don’t understand’

That is conducive to a loser mentality in a competitive industry, the acceptance of mediocrity

You have to understand things, but that doesn’t mean you have to tolerate everything

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Brad had a team that was 2nd overall in the entire NHL and then the players forgot how to play hockey during an week off.

He will pay the price most likely but you gotta feel for the guy


Players let him down big time

Might be true, but at the end of the day he is the architect of this team. They had one very good season and a bunch of mixed results, with mostly poor playoff performances outside of one series at the beginning of his tenure. And it has all culminated in an atrocious disaster of a season this year, which should be deemed unacceptable by anyone.
Honestly, you can't look at the results and think the guy has really earned much more faith. Yeah the players let him down, but he also was the guy that hired Gulutzan years ago. Maybe a Sutter level coach way back then could have made winners out of these guys. Who knows. He's done some good things but not nearly enough good to gloss over what has ended up happening. Its not like his teams were even winning rounds or making noise in the playoffs. There is no reason to lament moving on to another GM.

[Azhouse]

Is this the year the Wizard trades down 4x to get the player he really wanted?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would also add that inheriting an over-achieving isn't some great thing. What you need is talent that is going to be good consistently. And as it turns out this club was sorely lacking in elite talent.

We can agree the biggest miscalculation this entire organization, including many of the fans, made was over-evaluating how good the talent was.

I posted in another thread about Jagr talking to Gaudreau about what he saw as his potential, and what it takes, day in, day out, to be elite

I think that the ceiling is there for each player but there are other factors, partly strategy, partly the right type of leadership

Money and egos, there is a lot to deal with, and peak performance doesn’t come from a random assortment of talented folks without cohesion

I have been concerned about the leadership in the organization, and it has to be a group of leaders in different roles who are all on the same page

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Well, it’s a bit more complicated than that.

If you want to talk about reality, we have reviewed the final season with Hartley in detail and there was a lot that went on. 3 goalies, Hamilton’s first 20, Wideman, stabilized play until Ramo’s knee blowout (.919 from December through then) , etc.

And if Johnny and Monny as RFAs are, as you seem to imply, such hot #### they have the GM by the balls, he doesn’t deserve his job.

You are among many who love to default to ‘there are so many things going on that we just don’t understand’

That is conducive to a loser mentality in a competitive industry, the acceptance of mediocrity

You have to understand things, but that doesn’t mean you have to tolerate everything

I would rather be someone who seeks to understand rather than someone who defaults to the simple or easy answers

[Manhattanboy]

Ya I feel for Tre. Seems like a good guy.

The fall of Monahan snd Gaudreau has been nothing short of spectacular. Would be interesting to get reasoned views from those who watched it happen from the inside- someone like Gelinas.

Did they quit on the team? Were they suddenly figured out? Have they partied too hard for too long now?

It’s quite unbelievable.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I posted in another thread about Jagr talking to Gaudreau about what he saw as his potential, and what it takes, day in, day out, to be elite

I think that the ceiling is there for each player but there are other factors, partly strategy, partly the right type of leadership

Money and egos, there is a lot to deal with, and peak performance doesn’t come from a random assortment of talented folks without cohesion

I have been concerned about the leadership in the organization, and it has to be a group of leaders in different roles who are all on the same page

On this we agree
This team has struggled to get everyone on the same page more often that not
Hopefully Sutter can change that

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would rather be someone who seeks to understand rather than someone who defaults to the simple or easy answers

If that’s an argument, it’s not a refutation of my position. We all seek to understand, it’s the scientific way. And in the real world, time is not infinite. Decisions must be taken and results matter

Tre has presided over what seems to be a bad culture for years. So if it’s not the roster moves, or the obvious things, maybe it is leadership

If he can’t influence it, someone can. Things changed really quickly when Hartley came.

He says the buck stops with him.

I don’t think it really does.

Until it actually does.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

On this we agree
This team has struggled to get everyone on the same page more often that not
Hopefully Sutter can change that

Agreed, and I think we have seen some positives

But not quickly enough to right the ship this season unfortunately

[dino7c]

Honest question

Brad or Sutter as GM?

Team is bleeding money right now that might be the only option. I guess Conroy with Iggy as assistant lol

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Honest question

Brad or Sutter as GM?

Team is bleeding money right now that might be the only option. I guess Conroy with Iggy as assistant lol

Good question. I don’t know. Sadly I’ve basically lost faith in Brad, mainly form a leadership / accountability perspective, more so than a general paper transaction perspective

I will say this - one thing that Sutter had going for him as coach / GM was that he could do a lot more than just bench you

How would you answer your question?

[Da_Chief]

Covid excuse is lame. Trading isn't prohibited.

If you want to make a move you will. Addition by subtraction can be positive at times but for this GM he has to try to win every transaction even though he loses most of them.

Jackets and Jets needed to move their players who asked for a trade and they made a deal.

Vegas needed to make room they shipped out Stastny and Schmidt.

Staal just got moved to Habs.

Saad / Zadarov swap happened.

Toews from Islanders.

Plus all the minor moves.

Is the trading less than years past? sure but at the same time teams that want/need to make deal have done so.

Heck a 3rd/4th liner in Bennett has asked for a trade twice and he's still here doing nothing. I'm sure he's quite happy and giving his all.

[Flames_F.T.W]

I'm not anti-Treliving by any means, but I think this organization needs a fresh set of eyes badly. To most of us, its been obvious since the Colorado series that something was off with this leadership group. I've been passionately advocating for re-tooling the core since that playoff flop. But Treliving sat on his hands and only made minor tweaks. Same leadership group but with worse results.

Get someone else to change things up. Trade 3 of Gio, Backlund, Gaudreau and Monahan and you've got yourself a dramatically different team. I don't think a full rebuild is necessary.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Haha. Really?

Maybe he is a #### leader. Maybe he fails to set a culture of accountability

Disprove that hypothesis

We can start there

Treliving seemed to handle the Peters fiasco quite well. Considering he was the face of the franchise during that period, I would say he had shown a considerable amount of leadership in that account.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Starting over sounds OK if my alternative is more of the same. Of course what actually happens can’t be characterized so simply. And no one claiming he is dumb.

Now about 73% of decided voters say he should be gone.

I will acknowledge that most probably want him gone. Doesn’t mean it’s the smart thing to do though. After all we still have people complaining that he hasn’t brought in an elite coach or goaltender.

[Jig]

The issue is that he did not evaluate the team correctly. This team was not a coach and a goaltender away from competing.

[Jig]

I do not think the flames have anybody you would not trade in a good deal.
You can not trade everybody.

Bring a VP of hockey ops, let him decide about BT and his team and the culture going forward.

Keep the three young D, lindy and Tkachuck
With the rest of the assets try to get a building block a prospect a high draft pick something. Take a risk.

Meantime you will be drafting high over the next few years. Supplement your young’s with a veteran from a winning team.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Vegas’ is so deep in every other forward position, on defense and in goal, that they can compensated for having average centermen. I also think their style of play saves them; they’re extremely fast, they check hard for their chances, they track back fast to negate scoring chances against and they have that relentless quality I like. Not a ton of ego, they just put the work boots on every game, play as a team and smother their opponent.

I don’t know if they can win it all without an elite #1 center. They certainly were soundly beaten in the Washington series by Kuznetsov and Backstrom. But who knows, maybe they’ll be the first team to do it since the 2004 lockout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Lo

How about St. Louis? Do you consider ROR to be an elite C? He’s good, no question, but what would he be on the Oilers? 3C? How about Winnipeg? Washington? Pittsburgh? LA? TB? Toronto?......point being, he’s not a hands done 1C on quite a few teams. He wasn’t a 1C in Buffalo or Colorado when he left those teams either.

[Poe969]

The thing with Brad is that "it's a process" problem is that it's been a process of elimination.