Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Even when that job can't be filled by Canadians and foreigners have to be brought in from other countries under gov't programs to fill undesirable, low paying jobs? What's it worth then?

The market would eventually demand higher wages. Some businesses would close, but the market would clear at a higher wage rate even for lower skilled work.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

A job is worth what the market says it's worth. If a Tim's franchise owner can't find enough staff unless he or she offers $25/hr, then that job is by definition worth $25/hr.

Then why bother with minimum wage? If the market tanks and cost of living drops, isn't that job now worth less?

Or should we maybe look at both ends of the spectrum here?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Even when that job can't be filled by Canadians and foreigners have to be brought in from other countries under gov't programs to fill undesirable, low paying jobs? What's it worth then?

Foreigners don't have to be brought in to fill those positions. Business owners are choosing to exploit desperate people who will work for poverty-level wages because they refuse to pay the local market rate for those jobs.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Then why bother with minimum wage? If the market tanks and cost of living drops, isn't that job now worth less?

Or should we maybe look at both ends of the spectrum here?

So what do you propose we do about it on the other end of the spectrum?

[RockLicker]

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=184386

Pretty Please?

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Foreigners don't have to be brought in to fill those positions. Business owners are choosing to exploit desperate people who will work for poverty-level wages because they refuse to pay the local market rate for those jobs.

some valid points but not true on all fronts. There are a lot of companies in remote areas that need TFW's to survive. Go to rainbow lake and try an operate an A&W or gas station. It is difficult to find staff when anyone with a pulse can get a job pushing broom for over $20/hr. Even places like Whitecourt have difficultly staffing without TFW's. This has likely changed over the last few years with less oil and gas activity but many companies in remote areas wouldn't have survived without TFW's.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by guzzy

some valid points but not true on all fronts. There are a lot of companies in remote areas that need TFW's to survive. Go to rainbow lake and try an operate an A&W or gas station. It is difficult to find staff when anyone with a pulse can get a job pushing broom for over $20/hr. Even places like Whitecourt have difficultly staffing without TFW's. This has likely changed over the last few years with less oil and gas activity but many companies in remote areas wouldn't have survived without TFW's.

Companies not surviving higher wages would absolutely be one of the consequences of ending TFW. Wages would also go up for lower end labour, because remote undesirable jobs would need to pay enough to attract people.

The question is whether the benefit offsets the cost.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So what do you propose we do about it on the other end of the spectrum?

Hard to say. My point is that this is a lot more complicated than simply saying "A job is worth what the market says it's worth" when the market can fluctuate in both directions.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Locke

If minimum wage were to triple you and I and most people of the rapidly evaporating 'middle-class' would be the ones on the uncomfortable receiving end of cost increases.

We should all be getting pay increases to offset the rising cost of living. It seems logical to me that this is the only way the wealth gap closes. Wage increases occur for near everyone, but are inversely proportional to your total earnings.

[CaptainCrunch]

Oh gosh, if only there was a pipeline that could help you with this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425420240616411137

[Hemi-Cuda]

I'm not even pro-oil, but when the US government prefers to buy more oil from despotic and murderous regimes with zero environmental regulations over their closest ally, it's maddening

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why?

If you're both working the same unskilled job why should the old person with a family get any additional benefits at all?

The wage is the wage for the job. Not the person.

How about a compromise....you start at X ($12?) and end at Y ($17) over a period of years at the same job. Even for unskilled labour there is a benefit to continuity. It also happens to address the student/breadwinner issue in a reasonable way

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I'm not even pro-oil, but when the US government prefers to buy more oil from despotic and murderous regimes with zero environmental regulations over their closest ally, it's maddening

We do the exact same thing here in Canada but worse. Eastern and central Canada would rather buy that same awful African and middle east oil than build a pipeline from the western part of our own country.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by chedder

We do the exact same thing here in Canada but worse. Eastern and central Canada would rather buy that same awful African and middle east oil than build a pipeline from the western part of our own country.

In this scenario who's going to be the one eating the loss on getting oil east, Alberta or the Maritimes?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

In this scenario who's going to be the one eating the loss on getting oil east, Alberta or the Maritimes?

If you're asking me, I have no idea. Does Alberta oil even get to the maritimes? I know they sent that tanker all the way around last year to try it.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Oh gosh, if only there was a pipeline that could help you with this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425420240616411137

I understand that Biden admin is buying same amount of oil from Russia that the Keystone pipeline could have supplied. Looks like the Environment talk was all BS. Just said what was necessary to get elected.
Brutal.

[CaptainCrunch]

Of course the environmental talk was BS, it played well with the voters but means nothing.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by chedder

If you're asking me, I have no idea. Does Alberta oil even get to the maritimes? I know they sent that tanker all the way around last year to try it.

They sent a tanker to the Maritimes when oil was being sold for zero dollars...

So all they paid for was shipping...

Bear in mind that 1970’s Alberta chose to pipe oil to the USA instead of eastern Canada because higher prices were available from the USA.

50 years later, that decision would be different because times have changed. But back then it was the right thing to do.

(Yes I know I am over simplifying the situation)

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Of course the environmental talk was BS, it played well with the voters but means nothing.

So, one hundred pages of talking about how great Biden will be, and here we are. Crickets.

Of course Justin won’t say a word about it either, our great leader.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So, one hundred pages of talking about how great Biden will be, and here we are. Crickets.

Of course Justin won’t say a word about it either, our great leader.

I don’t think anyone said how great Biden would be. I think the best anyone said was he would be competent and would beat trump. I think everyone acknowledged that Biden likely was worse for Canadian Oil than Trump would have been.

No one expected FDR.