Do the Flames Keep Treliving?

[dino7c]

Can't fire a GM during a one month offseason

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Can't fire a GM during a one month offseason

Oh I disagree. It’s going to be 2022 before you have to play a game in front of your home fans again, it’s the perfect time to fire the GM.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Is he really learning though? Let's take this trade deadline for example. I think majority consensus for the team at that point is that the Flames likely would make the playoffs as a bottom seed, and be eliminated in the first round. Now as of last night, that's exactly what happened, DESPITE selling off future assets to bring in players that didn't move the needle, AND not selling on veteran players who are unlikely to be here next season and beyond (Harmonic & Brodie).

Are the Flames better off making not making long term moves, whereas if they did, they may have ended up with the exact same result in being eliminated in the first round?

What was he supposed to do though? The guidance from this ownership group is always to make the playoffs, and those are the bosses that he needs to report to.

Hamonic was injured and was untradable. At the time it was unclear if he would return this season at all.

Giordano was out for three weeks at that time and had a hamstring injury, it wasn't clear when he would return or if he'd have a setback.

Valimaki was done for the season.

So you're suggesting they should have still traded Brodie, not added pieces down the stretch, and he should have went with:

Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Stone
???? - ????

If he does that he would have just been roasted for giving up on this season and not giving this team a chance to make the playoffs.

Sadly this ownership groups priority is to always get into the playoffs, so Treliving moved a third and a fourth just to make sure we had enough bodies to even get into the playoffs. He also moved out Frolik to get a 4th - so really the net impact was moving Frolik for Forbort.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Oh I disagree. It’s going to be 2022 before you have to play a game in front of your home fans again, it’s the perfect time to fire the GM.

Yeah because nobody cares if you can't watch in person just look around this place is a ghost town.

[Caged Great]

They really should keep him.

Despite not having a ton of picks recently, he has managed to acquire a bunch of high end skilled players later on that were translated into either NHLers or valuable trade chips (Fox).

The Flames have changed their drafting methods lately. Focusing more on compete level in addition to the skill. Pelletier will be a good player eventually for this team, and his compete is similar to guys like Bennett and Tkachuk.

The Flames just need more picks and prospects that fill that mould and to layer them in. Turnover is fine. Trading Gaudreau/Monahan/Giordano is fine. Use the acquired assets wisely.

The team needed a verdict on what this team was after Colorado. Was that an aberration, or was that who they were. We have that answer. Time to proceed accordingly. You couldn't rip the team apart after last season because sometimes things just happen (see Tampa vs Columbus, and then Tampa vs Columbus 2.0). Calgary could have easily continued to play as they did in 3 and 4 vs WPG and game 1 vs Dallas. If they did, we'd be talking about Vegas right now. However, we know that they don't have it. Time for changes.

I think that was already baked in the cake. If the changes that are made don't work, then I think you fire the gm, but there is enough parts and pieces here that you can shake things up significantly, and be competitive as you make further adjustments.

[ComixZone]

2014
- Brandon Bollig acquired for a 2014 3rd round pick
- Drew Shore acquired for Corbin Knight
- David Wolf signed (1 year, 925K AAV)
- Jonas Hiller signed (2 years, 4.5M AAV)
- Mason Raymond signed (3 years, 3.15M AAV)
- Paul Byron (1 year, 600K AAV)
- Joe Colborne (2 years, 1.275M AAV)
- Sam Bennett (3 years, ELC)
- Joni Ortio (2 years, 600K AAV)
- Mark Cundari (1 year, 700K AAV)
- Lance Bouma (1 year, 775K AAV)
- Devin Setoguchi (1 year, 750K AAV)
- TJ Brodie (5 years, 4.65M AAV)
- Johnny Gaudreau (3 years, ELC, burned 1 year)

2015
- 2015 2nd round pick, 2015 3rd round pick acquired for Curtis Glencross
- 2015 2nd round pick acquired for Sven Baertschi
- Dougie Hamilton acquired for 2015 1st round pick, 2015 2nd round pick, 2015 2nd round pick
- 2016 conditional pick acquired for Max Reinhart
- Freddie Hamilton acquired for 2016 conditional pick
- Kevin Poulin acquired for future considerations
- David Schlemko acquired via waivers
- Garnet Hathaway signed (2 years, 690K AAV)
- Jon Gillies signed (ELC)
- Jakub Nakladal (1 year, 817.5K AAV)
- Mikael Backlund (3 years, 3.575M AAV)
- Dougie Hamilton (6 years, 5.75M AAV)
- Derek Grant (1 year, 700K AAV)
- Michael Frolik (5 years, 4.3M AAV)
- Karri Ramo (1 year, 3.8M AAV)
- Drew Shore (1 year, 850.5K AAV)
- Ance Bouma (3 years, 2.2M AAV)
- Micheal Ferland (2 years, 825K AAV)
- Mark Giordano (6 years, 6.75M AAV)

2016
- Hunter Shinkaruk acquired for Markus Granlund
- 2016 2nd round pick, 2018 4th round pick acquired for Jiri Hudler
- Niklas Backstrom, 2016 6th round pick acquired for David Jones
- Jyrki Jokipakka, Brett Pollick, 2016 2nd round pick acquired for Kris Russel
- Brian Elliott acquired for 2016 2nd round pick, 2018 conditional pick (not met)
- Alexi Chiasson acquired for Patrick Sieloff
- Mark Jankowski signed (2 years, 925K AAV)
- David Rittich signed (1 year, 925K AAV)
- Mason Raymond (buyout)
- Troy Brouwer (4 years, 4.5M AAV)
- Chad Johnson (1 year, 1.7M AAV)
- Matthew Tkachuk signed (ELC)
- Sean Monahan (7 years, 6.375M AAV)
- Johnny Gaudreau (6 years, 6.75M AAV)
- Kris Verseet (1 year, 950K AAV)
- Niklas Grossman (1 year, 575K AAV)

2017
- Michael Stone acquired for 2018 5th round pick, 2017 3rd round pick
- Curtis Lazar, Mike Kostka acquired for 2017 2nd round pick, Jyrki Jokipakka
- Mike Smith acquired for Brandon Hickey, Chad Johnson, 2018 3rd round pick
- Travis Hamonic, conditional 2019 4th round pick acquired for 2018 1st round pick, 2018 2nd round pick, 2019 2nd round pick
- Eddie Lack, Ryan Murphy, 2019 th round pick acquired for Keegan Kanzig, 2019 6th round pick
- 2018 conditional 7th round pick acquired for Tom McCollum
- Dalton Prout acquired for Eddie Lack
- Marrt Bartkowski (2 years, 612.5K AAV)
- Spencer Foo (2 years, ELC)
- Kris Versteeg (1 year, 1.75M AAV)
- Lance Bouma (buyout)
- Michael Stone (3 years, 3.5M AAV)
- Luke Gazdic (1 year, 650K AAV)
- Micheal Ferland (2 years, 1.75M AAV)
- Curtis Lazar (2 years, 950K AAV)
- Garnet Hathaway (1 year, 650K AAV)
- Jon Gillies (1 year, 725K AAV)
- Sam Bennett (2 years, 1.95M AAV)
- Jaromir Jagr (1 year, 1M AAV)
- Glen Gawdin (3 years, ELC)
- Tanner Glass (1 year, 650K AAV)

2018
- Nick Shore acquired for 2019 7th round pick
- Elias Lindholm, Noah Hanifin acquired for Dougie Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, Adam Fox
- Kerby Rychel acquired for Hunter Shinkaruk
- Rinat Valiev, Matt Taormina acquired for Brett Kulak
- Andrew Nielsen acquired for Morgan Klimchuk
- Mikael Backlund (6 years, 5.35M AAV)
- Chris Stewart (waiver claim)
- Elias Lindholm (6 years, 4.85M AAV)
- Noah Hanifin (6 years, 4.95M AAV)
- Austin Czarnik (2 years, 1.25M AAV)
- James Neal (5 years, 5.75M AAV)
- Derek Ryan (3 years, 3.125M AAV)
- David Rittich (1 year, 800K AAV)
- Brett Kulak (1 year, 900K AAV)
- Garnet Hathaway (1 year, 850K AAV)
- Troy Brouwer (buyout)
- Mark Jankowski (2 years, 1.675M AAV)
- Dalton Prout (1 year, 800K AAV)

2019
- Oscan Fantenberg acquired for 2020 4th round pick
- Milan Lucic (750K retained), 2020 3rd round pick acquired for James Neal
- 2020 4th round pick acquired for Michael Frolik
- Carl-Johan Lerby (2 years, ELC)
- Alexander Yelesin (2 years, ELC)
- Brandon Davidson (1 year, 700K AAV)
- Cam Talbot (1 year, 2.75M AAV)
- Sam Bennett (2 years, 2.55M AAV)
- David Rittich (2 years, 2.75M AAV)
- Michael Stone (buyout)
- Michael Stone (1 year, 700K AAV)
- Matthew Tkachuk (3 years, 7M AAV)
- Tobias Rieder (1 year, 700K AAV)
- Artyom Zagidulin (1 year, 925K AAV)

2020
- Erik Gustafsson acquired for 2020 3rd round pick
- Derek Forbort acquired for 2020 4th round pick
- Artyom Zagidulin (1 year, 700K AAV)
- Connor Mackey (1 year, ELC)
- Colton Poolman (1 year, ELC)
- Johannes Kinnvall (2 years, ELC)



Brad Treliving is definitively a mediocre/bad general manager. I'm sure I missed a few minor things and there may be some errors.

Look at 2019 and 2020. What an absolutely waste of time from a team building perspective.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Treliving is our guy for at least one or two more years, I think that is pretty much guaranteed.

If they make a change I can only see it being Connie but it won’t be until in season next year at the earliest.

The concern is Treliving pulls a Sutter and makes some bad trades to save himself that just sets the organization back. I don’t think he will but I didn’t think Sutter would do that at the time as well.

Desperate GM’s make bad moves just ask Chiarelli

[Sylvanfan]

When we had the best GM poll, I noted that the difference between Treliving and Sutter right now, is that we know how Sutter's time finished, and have had 7 years to be bitter about it and hate him for his moves...So right now is a defining time for Treliving, does he try and improve what he has with a few moves, or can he sell ownership on a new vision to re-build the team. That will be a very hard sell and he may not have much influence on it. Back in 09 many on this board lauded Sutter for trading Tanguay and bringing in Cammalleri and than landing Jokinen at the deadline...only to have the wheels fall off and the team nose dive. Will Trelving try a similar approach and actually make it work, will he have the same result, or will he shift course?

For me, what he does this offseason will ultimately define him as a GM.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If they make a change I can only see it being Connie but it won’t be until in season next year at the earliest.

The concern is Treliving pulls a Sutter and makes some bad trades to save himself that just sets the organization back. I don’t think he will but I didn’t think Sutter would do that at the time as well.

Desperate GM’s make bad moves just ask Chiarelli

Treliving doesn't strike me as someone to make desperate moves.

However, I believe the direction given to him from above will be to tinker and 'remain competitive'. In that scenario, he is in a no-win situation. It will go very badly.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sure but you can't force another team to trade with you...if they like the other teams assets better what can you do?

Agreed. But we have missed out multiple times by being the runners up.

Stone
Hall
Zucker (albeit due to ownership)
Kadri (player didn’t waive)

[Enoch Root]

We hear about these because it is our team. I am sure most teams have a long list of 'almost' trades, we just don't hear about them.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Oh I disagree. It’s going to be 2022 before you have to play a game in front of your home fans again, it’s the perfect time to fire the GM.

With reduced revenue coming in, are they really going to want to pay Treliving and his replacement?

If you are less worried about the on-ice product to drive gate sales, you could argue that sitting tight is fine as well.

This team has a history of hiring has-beens, or unproven upstarts as GMs. Maybe it's depressing to think about, but Treliving is probably the best GM the team had since Al Coates, who was severely limited in resources.

I would support going with Conroy as interim because he has been around the team, but knowing the Flames, they would go off the board and hire some dude no one has heard of, or some has-been with name recognition. Things could always be worse (Chiarelli anyone)?

[CaptainCrunch]

I think because of the outright weirdness of this season.


Peter's having to be removed. Using Ward as a interim coach
Covid and Hamonic staying home.


Treliving will probably get another year, but the team better have a good start when the next season happens. I also think that the flattening of the cap will have a pretty dynamic effect and the upcoming expansion draft.


I don't see him going anywhere.



I do think the current coaching staff won't survive.


In terms of the players themselves, this is still a relatively young team with some young talent looking to jump.



I honestly thought the mid 2 lines were ok, and the 4th line was very good. But the first line wasn't what it should be though I thought Johnny was good in the last two games, but man does he has confidence swings.


The Blueline, I think the system hampered this team in this round, the team as a whole was way too passive without the puck in the final 5 games of the series, which goes against how I think this team was built. I also think that there needs to be a changing of the guard on the blueline, Gio needs to take a lesser role with lesser minutes, or even be given the Cup choice, Hey Gio we're willing to trade you to a contending team. I'd love to see Brodie stay, but then again Anderson was terrific and Valimaki needs some space.



Goaltending needs a real rethink, we need a actual bonifide starter not a platoon.


First line


Johnny - I'd explore his value, because I'm not convinced he'd resign, I thought he got better as the series went on, but I'd like to see someone that can be more active on the forecheck


Mony - I think he's a very good second line center, but a questionable first line guy. He's probably a pretty big trade asset.


Lindholm - Bad series, but I keep him, he's got a complete game


Second line


MT - Yeah keep him, though I'm scared that he's headed out of town as soon as his contract expires. Put the C on him.
Backlund - I love the guy, he's a warrior, but I think its time, to break him out of the nucleus and he has reputational value.

Dube - He's a huge future piece and improves everytime I see him.
Line 3
Eat Bread - Keep him
Sam Bennett - Keep him and hope he can elevate to a top 6 center winger
Reider - He's the type of guy that you try to actively replace, so trade him
Line 4 - Lucic - loved his effort and I don't think he's tradable right now, but try
Ryan - Try to replace him, I didn't see him much in the playoffs
Robinson - Keep him, he's a big body energy guy


Defense
Pairing one
Gio - Give him the option of being moved, or cut his time if he wants to stay.
Brodie - When he's good he's very good. I'd like to see if he can be resigned
Hanifan - He's still young with a lot of potential, and he's still learning. Unless you get overwhelming offers he's back next year.
Andersson - He's looking more and more special and top 3 or 4
Forbert - good bye
Gus - Good bye
Valimaki keep him



Goalies
Talbot - If you can bring him back as a back up great.
BSD - I'm less sold on him this year, explore the goalie marker for a starter.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Treliving doesn't strike me as someone to make desperate moves.

However, I believe the direction given to him from above will be to tinker and 'remain competitive'. In that scenario, he is in a no-win situation. It will go very badly.

This team should be able to remain competitive depending on the moves he makes. Our offense will be hurt trading Monahan and Gaudreau but if they could land an elite goalie this team will remain similar to last year. You hope the futures you get for Monahan and Gaudreau develop into better pieces and this team competes for a cup in 3-4 years when Tkachuk is that 26 year old and the guys we pick from the Monahan/Gaudreau trades are 21-22

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by agulati

Agreed. But we have missed out multiple times by being the runners up.

Stone
Hall
Zucker (albeit due to ownership)
Kadri (player didn’t waive)

Stone also wouldn't sign here by all accounts

[agulati]

This constant exodus of picks does hurt, especially since the drafting/development under Treliving has looked promising. That is one aspect of his GM time that has absolutely been excellent.

His trades have been hit or a miss, though they have not, in the end, moved the needle much.

Also love the poll. What are we receiving? Though I’d vote yes on receiving it

EDIT: Lol quick fix there Mods

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Stone also wouldn't sign here by all accounts

"all accounts" is literally just that Stone said he was stoked to sign in Vegas and would have been interested in them if he hit free agency - and he said this after he signed with Vegas.

"By all accounts" that deal fell apart because Tree wouldn't include Valimaki. Maloney went to bed thinking the deal was done, and woke up and it wasn't.

Flames simply got outbid, and that does in fact happen.

But this team accomplished nothing because Tree fell in love with his own players and has become complacent as a general manager. He just hasn't improved this team since he acquired Lindholm and Hanifin - and Hamilton was the best player in that trade. I love that we moved the best player in the trade because he didn't fit in with the culture...because we have some kinda special culture or something. What a farce.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Stone also wouldn't sign here by all accounts

That’s a fair point. His constant targeting of wingers also stands out. Flames need a better center. Though, I do like your positivity Dino, and I do agree that Treliving should be kept on for atleast another year or 2, but his moves (as well as non-moves) should come under the microscope

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

Treliving history:

2014–15 - 2nd round loss (1-4)
2015–16 - no playoffs
2016–17 - 1st round loss (sweep)
2017–18 - no playoffs
2018–19 - 1st round loss (1-4)
2019–20 - 1st round loss (2-4)

How is this even a question?

This is so pathetic. Six years to win enough for two series. The Flames must be close to last in playoff wins over the last 30 years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

"all accounts" is literally just that Stone said he was stoked to sign in Vegas and would have been interested in them if he hit free agency - and he said this after he signed with Vegas.

"By all accounts" that deal fell apart because Tree wouldn't include Valimaki. Maloney went to bed thinking the deal was done, and woke up and it wasn't.

Flames simply got outbid, and that does in fact happen.

But this team accomplished nothing because Tree fell in love with his own players and has become complacent as a general manager. He just hasn't improved this team since he acquired Lindholm and Hanifin - and Hamilton was the best player in that trade. I love that we moved the best player in the trade because he didn't fit in with the culture...because we have some kinda special culture or something. What a farce.

It would have been a terrible deal for a rental...it's easier to offer more when you are in one of the NHLs top market and you know the guy will sign. The deal was done before Stone arrived it was obviously negotiated beforehand. A new GM would have the same geography