Wikileaks.org -- Tens of thousands of Afghan war docs leaked

[HPLovecraft]

http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/

Holy sh*t.

Looks like Wikileaks.org has gotten hold of thousands of Afghan war documents ranging from 2004 to this year (2010). They include intelligence reports, the supposed majority of lethal action statistics, etc., with accurate dates, times, and geographic locations.

These reports all add up to the internal statistics of the military. The number they are reporting internally that die (civilian, enemy, and friendly), etc. They don't however, cover Special Ops info, or European/foreign activities. Most CIA stuff isn't in there, either, however, this is:

For example a number of bloody operations carried out by Task Force 373, a previously secret US Special Forces assassination unit, are exposed in the Diary -- including a raid that lead to the death of seven children.

Wikileaks.org says they are withholding some information for sensitive reasons until a certain time period has lapsed that is demanded by their source.

http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/

It supposedly also shows Pakistan two-timing the States, with the US knowing it. Pakistani secret agents meeting with Taliban leaders to plan ways to attack coalition forces, assassinate Afghan leaders, etc.

You could spend all week looking through these leaks. Each report has the Google maps location, too.

http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/

[CaptainCrunch]

If that leak is ever exposed your going to see a treason trial.

I'd be interested in seeing the governments reaction to this and if they react to it.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If that leak is ever exposed your going to see a treason trial.

I'd be interested in seeing the governments reaction to this and if they react to it.

They're already going after Bradley Manning who purportedly leaked the Iraqi copter video, so I'm pretty sure they'll go after this one hard too.

I'm glad these guys are leaking all this material, and I'm grateful that Wikileaks is still up and running.

[HPLovecraft]

As long as it doesn't directly lead to casualties on the ground, I'm happy with it. Transparency is necessary to weed out corruption. That being said, I'm glad they're withholding some 15,000 odd more reports until their source gives the OK to release them.

[Ozy_Flame]

Holy crap, my thesis is on almost exactly this type of stuff being leaked on the internet. Excellent fodder.

[Azure]

Leaked documents means someone is committing treason, and I suspect heads are going to roll over this.

And why am I not surprised that Pakistan is two-timing the US?

[Azure]

For example a number of bloody operations carried out by Task Force 373, a previously secret US Special Forces assassination unit, are exposed in the Diary -- including a raid that lead to the death of seven children.

Anyone expect otherwise? I would imagine this Task Force is much like Task Force 141.

And they are/were involved in many REALLY dangerous missions, and I would EXPECT that innocent people might be killed. Nature of the job.

War is in general a bad thing. Only thing that is supposed to make it GOOD is if you get a certain result.

Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't, but ALL the time, people, especially innocent civilians will die if they're in the warzone. From the start of time this has been FACT.

And this will never change.

But the only thing that will happen now is that people are going to vilify this task force, and others whose primary objective is to hunt down terrorist leaders and kill them.

Something we need MORE of.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Azure

Anyone expect otherwise? I would imagine this Task Force is much like Task Force 141.

And they are/were involved in many REALLY dangerous missions, and I would EXPECT that innocent people might be killed. Nature of the job.

War is in general a bad thing. Only thing that is supposed to make it GOOD is if you get a certain result.

Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't, but ALL the time, people, especially innocent civilians will die if they're in the warzone. From the start of time this has been FACT.

And this will never change.

But the only thing that will happen now is that people are going to vilify this task force, and others whose primary objective is to hunt down terrorist leaders and kill them.

Something we need MORE of.

War will always be brutal, and people will always be outraged over civilian deaths. One of these things I would like to see change, while the other, remain the same.

When an entire population becomes detached from innocent death, that's when you really know your society is ill.

Disgust is, and should continue to be, the response to death. The military will not suddenly be disbanded because of it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

Leaked documents means someone is committing treason, and I suspect heads are going to roll over this.

And why am I not surprised that Pakistan is two-timing the US?

We've known that the ISI has been playing both sides of the game with the Taliban for a long time. The piece of weird justice in the whole thing is that the Taliban has been actively taking up terrorist activities in Pakistan.

The Pakistan army has been fighting a bloody war against the Taliban for the last year.

At some point the rivalry between the ISI and the army is going to come to a head.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

Anyone expect otherwise? I would imagine this Task Force is much like Task Force 141.

And they are/were involved in many REALLY dangerous missions, and I would EXPECT that innocent people might be killed. Nature of the job.

War is in general a bad thing. Only thing that is supposed to make it GOOD is if you get a certain result.

Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't, but ALL the time, people, especially innocent civilians will die if they're in the warzone. From the start of time this has been FACT.

And this will never change.

But the only thing that will happen now is that people are going to vilify this task force, and others whose primary objective is to hunt down terrorist leaders and kill them.

Something we need MORE of.

When you have a enemy that fights war in an unconventional fashion. who dress in civilian garb, who attack and then blends back into the civilian population your going to get civilian casualties.

I don't believe that any of the western allies are out to murder civillians, I think they try to avoid collateral damage.

I don't know how more can be prevented.

[mikey_the_redneck]

The Wiki-Leaks guy is going to be killed.

But frankly, I think the nation needs to know about what is going on over there. All kinds of abuse....

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Some examples extracted from the report:

http://hyphenatedrepublic.wordpress....c-communiques/

The civilian casualties in this mess are an affront to human dignity. There are too many examples over the years to wave these incidents off as some terrorist tossing a grenade then running into a civilian's house.

But maybe we can eventually kill all the "terrorists" in these countries. I'm sure that will solve everything.

[peter12]

This makes me sick. The people who released these documents, contributed to our public atmosphere of cowardice, and put the lives of ISAF troops in danger should be imprisoned.

The business of the state abroad is not the business of citizens, even in a democracy. A state acts to protect its interests and defend the regime's idea of a common good. To execute the will of a state one must be prepared to accept some human cost. Civilians die in war, it is the sad and inevitable consequence of violence.

As republican nations abroad, we are acting in the name of republican values, we are not pillagers, rapists or thieves.

I am disgusted by the response of some of the above posters to these documents. So much for patriotism, so much for courage.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Some examples extracted from the report:

http://hyphenatedrepublic.wordpress....c-communiques/

The civilian casualties in this mess are an affront to human dignity. There are too many examples over the years to wave these incidents off as some terrorist tossing a grenade then running into a civilian's house.

But maybe we can eventually kill all the "terrorists" in these countries. I'm sure that will solve everything.

but a large number of previously unknown incidents also appear to be the result of troops shooting unarmed drivers or motorcyclists out of a determination to protect themselves from suicide bombers.

This little number is such a great representation of the idiocy shown by so many people. Do you have any idea what it must be like to constantly be on the lookout for Taliban terrorists disguised as civilians that pose a potential suicide bomb threat not only to yourself but to your fellow soldiers?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by peter12

The business of the state abroad is not the business of citizens, even in a democracy. A state acts to protect its interests and defend the regime's idea of a common good.

This attitude opens the door to corruption and tyranny.

The people are the ones that ultimately must hold the state accountable, and you're suggesting the activities over there in Afghanistan should be kept secret?

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by peter12

This makes me sick. The people who released these documents, contributed to our public atmosphere of cowardice, and put the lives of ISAF troops in danger should be imprisoned.

The business of the state abroad is not the business of citizens, even in a democracy. A state acts to protect its interests and defend the regime's idea of a common good. To execute the will of a state one must be prepared to accept some human cost. Civilians die in war, it is the sad and inevitable consequence of violence.

As republican nations abroad, we are acting in the name of republican values, we are not pillagers, rapists or thieves.

I am disgusted by the response of some of the above posters to these documents. So much for patriotism, so much for courage.

What does this have to do with courage?

How can a state both be a republic and fight for republican ideals, and act unilaterally in war without any check on their power or decision-making?

I think it's idealistic at best to say republican nations are acting in the name of republican values. They are acting in the name of their nation's interest. Republican values be damned.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

What does this have to do with courage?

How can a state both be a republic and fight for republican ideals, and act unilaterally in war without any check on their power or decision-making?

I think it's idealistic at best to say republican nations are acting in the name of republican values. They are acting in the name of their nation's interest. Republican values be damned.

And we are republics. I'm going to leave this thread alone now.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by peter12

And we are republics. I'm going to leave this thread alone now.

There's a difference between fighting for one's values and fighting for one's interest. For example, one could not say the United States was acting for republican values when it overthrew democracies in South America in order to maintain power. But they were definitely fighting for their interest.

[BlackEleven]

We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes.

Dwight Eisenhower said that in his farewell speech in 1961. It's a shame that no one listened to him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by peter12

This makes me sick. The people who released these documents, contributed to our public atmosphere of cowardice, and put the lives of ISAF troops in danger should be imprisoned.

The business of the state abroad is not the business of citizens, even in a democracy. A state acts to protect its interests and defend the regime's idea of a common good. To execute the will of a state one must be prepared to accept some human cost. Civilians die in war, it is the sad and inevitable consequence of violence.

As republican nations abroad, we are acting in the name of republican values, we are not pillagers, rapists or thieves.

I am disgusted by the response of some of the above posters to these documents. So much for patriotism, so much for courage.

Please tell me you're kidding. This is absolutely asinine.

I know you're not kidding. You dont have the good sense.